PS2 Black screen and "no signal" message when playing PS1 games on POPStarter

[Berion]

Ad1. Probably only debug colours displaying in "disco" version.
Ad3a. None of PS2 games published on CD was CDDA (audio tracks).
Ad3b. You cannot say that game "have ECM". ECM is a disc compression format (poor today, better is CISO (PCSX2 support it; similar to the one designed for PSP)) and of course CHD (but none of the PS2 emulators known to me support it). ECM is a relic of the past.
Ad3c. You should and even must.
Ad7. Possible for sure but no one hack it i that way.
Ad8. If You want best experience with PS2 games, play on PS2 or on PC using PCSX2. Other options are poor user experience.
Ad9. Because they are compressed and often data inside is already compressed by game developer. Additionally, PS3 is very slow in unpacking a lot of files from PKGs. This is shit format. Quicker for You will be keeping PS3 data unpacked, transfer it on demand via FTP and rebuilding database after You finished. This is the quickest way in manner of games (especially those ugly ones with thousands of files or million patches ;p).
Ad10. I don't see a question there. ;p
Ad11. I don't understand Your question.

 

[Windows10User]

Ad1. Probably only debug colours displaying in "disco" version.
Ad3a. None of PS2 games published on CD was CDDA (audio tracks).
Ad3b. You cannot say that game "have ECM". ECM is a disc compression format (poor today, better is CISO (PCSX2 support it; similar to the one designed for PSP)) and of course CHD (but none of the PS2 emulators known to me support it). ECM is a relic of the past.
Ad3c. You should and even must.
Ad7. Possible for sure but no one hack it i that way.
Ad8. If You want best experience with PS2 games, play on PS2 or on PC using PCSX2. Other options are poor user experience.
Ad9. Because they are compressed and often data inside is already compressed by game developer. Additionally, PS3 is very slow in unpacking a lot of files from PKGs. This is shit format. Quicker for You will be keeping PS3 data unpacked, transfer it on demand via FTP and rebuilding database after You finished. This is the quickest way in manner of games (especially those ugly ones with thousands of files or million patches ;p).
Ad10. I don't see a question there. ;p
Ad11. I don't understand Your question.

1) What are debug colours?

3) Sorry, I don't understand what CCDA files (never heard of them) have to do with my question.

I've never heard of CISO (what is the one designed for the PSP?) and CHD.

7) IIRC, it had a smoothing XMB setting enabled after enabling a XMB setting but I didn't notice a difference. I find it odd no one did.

9) May transferring the unpacked PKG files to the PS3 and rebuilding the console's database afterwards cause problems?

 

[Peppe90]

I didn't have the PS component cable back then, but I don't recall it was exceptional when DVDs were played over component. I used cable TV, although I forgot if I was using RF or component (probably component, as HDMI was available with the LCD screen - although RF was certainly used in the early 2000s, with a VCR as a passthrough).
Mine was a 40" from the early 2000s, but it was a SD TV from what I do remember; it didn't support progressive scanning. The pixels of that set were visibly huge, and so were the gaps between pixels. I only noticed the quality problem when composite cables were used, after upgrading to a LCD panel.
Since it's got no support for HD, it was not possible to use superior video formats with it. Certainly not widescreen either.

It's possible that you wasn't using a component cable, but the composite cable bundled with playstations?

40" is generally too much for a consumer SD CRT Tv (better to remain under 30"), likely it also had visible alignment problems.

So, would you argue that he should get yet another TV? That's the point I have been trying to make.

Well, there' isn't any CRT manufacturer that gives me a bribe for advertising them
If he want or not to get another TV, is his choice I think.

Let's recap briefly... I was answering to some of his questions, since he said that GSM often mess up things on screen or makes some games to not even boot. So I answered this:

About GSM. Keep in mind that Ps2 is a console from 2000. It is made with analog connections/TVs in mind. Developers done their best with GSM but obviously it have issues. You should remedy a good 4:3 CRT Tv (possibly with a SCART input) for the best yield without any need of progressive mode.

Anyway, if you don't have problems at 480p, you're good, I think going higher doesn't make a noticeable difference (it is so even with official feature, like in GT4. 1080i is the same as 480p on LCD. They're both 10 times better than 480i).

It was just for informing him. I don't even know if he lives in a country where SCART input is present on TVs. I simply know that in many countries (like here in Italy) you can remedy top notch CRTs for nothing (many people almost pay you for retiring them...).

Then he:

I've been told it's a mith playing PS2 games on CRT looks better and also the opposite so I don't know which opinion should I trust by now.

...and me:

Probably who told you used to play on CRT connected with a composite cable...

To get a decent picture from Ps2 games on LCD, you need a PC for running PCSX2, setting the game's internal resolution same (or higher) as your TV native resolution.

But even this way you won't get a picture as good as with a CRT (with SCART-RGB cable connection). On a good CRT you get much better colors, black/contrast and a perfect motion resolution.

Then you said:

I don't personally believe that you need a CRT to play PS2 games. Although the PS2 was designed in the 1990s, it was already 1999 and it's made for 3D.
I moved from a CRT to LCD in 2009, and found that graphics are much sharper on the LCD. Some people dislike that, I know.

Anyway, I perfectly understand your point. I hope I managed to make things clearer about my point also.

I don't have any reason for telling that the Ps2 (og hw) picture quality is better on CRT than LCD, aside that's simply the truth.

I have different kind of CRTs (some SD TV ones, a HD one, a couple good monitors), LCDs (a very good VA TV and a IPS QHD monitor my sister bought for photography), I have also a friend with a top Plasma Tv and another with a 4k HDR Oled. I can make direct comparisons every day, I'm not basing any judment on memories.

Unless you wanted a specific sort of quality, you do not strictly need a CRT. And what sort of CRT are you referring to, even?
People have shared some of their reasons with me for using a CRT, but I, as an individual, cannot agree because scanlines and blurred textures don't seem to be "quality" to me - as those were also reasons why we moved forward (it's a contradiction, isn't it?). But to each his own - I might have been born too late (in the 1990s) to enjoy the early video formats as a paying adult.

I see. Btw I brought some supporting arguments (about the fact that interlaced material is perfectly reproduced on CRT-so to avoid GSM issues, about black/contrast, colors, motion resolution, etc...) for what I was saying, since you don't agree, why you didn't quoted me for elaborate on them?

As you, I don't like blurred textures (that's the reason I putted aside the full-hd LCD for a HD CRT...), neither scanlines. I'm pretty sure we share a very similar conception of what picture quality means.

Just a few observations:

If you get blurred textures on CRT it's for either, bad convergence, bad focus, bad cable/signal (i.e. composite) bad picture alignment (i.e. rising contrast too much can worsen the focus on CRT TVs).
You don't need any kind of specific tv (there's no need of a PVM/BVM-monitor, lol... I think you already guessed I'm not talking about those kind of subtleties). I'm now in front of a Mivar 28S4 stereo, we paid about 300$ for it in 2001. Connecting the Ps2 to it with a Scart-RGB cable gives a much sharper picture than any LCD.
And I'm talking about a still picture, 'cause to compare them in motion isn't even a thing.

Now if you don't agree on something, let's elaborate on those observations. You can ask me everything you want about TV picture quality. I'm just sorry I can't show you these things from live/in person. It'd be so simple and perfectly clear.

 

[Berion]

CRT offering native resolution, while PDP/LCD/OLED scaling it. How it is handle by TV, determining the quality. It always be worst than native but... on new TVs You can display image without scanlines and if PPI vs distance from TV is enough, with good algorithms for upscaling, result can be not bad.

Personally I'm a fan of lossless algo (nearest neighbour) but none of the TV which I saw, using it. So output picture is always more or less, blurred. I hate that, but there are peoples which don't like crisp "pixel perfect". So, this is more just personal preferences. Oh, and we have also aspects of used cables, and matrix colours. Some TV also adding sub frames to "emulate" 60fps. It is not easy topic.

 

[Windows10User]

It's possible that you wasn't using a component cable, but the composite cable bundled with playstations?

40" is generally too much for a consumer SD CRT Tv (better to remain under 30"), likely it also had visible alignment problems.



Well, there' isn't any CRT manufacturer that gives me a bribe for advertising them
If he want or not to get another TV, is his choice I think.

Let's recap briefly... I was answering to some of his questions, since he said that GSM often mess up things on screen or makes some games to not even boot. So I answered this:



It was just for informing him. I don't even know if he lives in a country where SCART input is present on TVs. I simply know that in many countries (like here in Italy) you can remedy top notch CRTs for nothing (many people almost pay you for retiring them...).

Then he:



...and me:



Then you said:



Anyway, I perfectly understand your point. I hope I managed to make things clearer about my point also.

I don't have any reason for telling that the Ps2 (og hw) picture quality is better on CRT than LCD, aside that's simply the truth.

I have different kind of CRTs (some SD TV ones, a HD one, a couple good monitors), LCDs (a very good VA TV and a IPS QHD monitor my sister bought for photography), I have also a friend with a top Plasma Tv and another with a 4k HDR Oled. I can make direct comparisons every day, I'm not basing any judment on memories.



I see. Btw I brought some supporting arguments (about the fact that interlaced material is perfectly reproduced on CRT-so to avoid GSM issues, about black/contrast, colors, motion resolution, etc...) for what I was saying, since you don't agree, why you didn't quoted me for elaborate on them?

As you, I don't like blurred textures (that's the reason I putted aside the full-hd LCD for a HD CRT...), neither scanlines. I'm pretty sure we share a very similar conception of what picture quality means.

Just a few observations:

If you get blurred textures on CRT it's for either, bad convergence, bad focus, bad cable/signal (i.e. composite) bad picture alignment (i.e. rising contrast too much can worsen the focus on CRT TVs).
You don't need any kind of specific tv (there's no need of a PVM/BVM-monitor, lol... I think you already guessed I'm not talking about those kind of subtleties). I'm now in front of a Mivar 28S4 stereo, we paid about 300$ for it in 2001. Connecting the Ps2 to it with a Scart-RGB cable gives a much sharper picture than any LCD.
And I'm talking about a still picture, 'cause to compare them in motion isn't even a thing.

Now if you don't agree on something, let's elaborate on those observations. You can ask me everything you want about TV picture quality. I'm just sorry I can't show you these things from live/in person. It'd be so simple and perfectly clear.

Could you answer my previous questions?

 

[Peppe90]

CRT offering native resolution, while PDP/LCD/OLED scaling it. How it is handle by TV, determining the quality. It always be worst than native but... on new TVs You can display image without scanlines and if PPI vs distance from TV is enough, with good algorithms for upscaling, result can be not bad.

Personally I'm a fan of lossless algo (nearest neighbour) but none of the TV which I saw, using it. So output picture is always more or less, blurred. I hate that, but there are peoples which don't like crisp "pixel perfect". So, this is more just personal preferences. Oh, and we have also aspects of used cables, and matrix colours. Some TV also adding sub frames to "emulate" 60fps. It is not easy topic.

Indeed, on HD digital panels, SD resolution is not only blurred but also colors are washed out (more or less depending on the scaler's quality, but it's always definitely visible, especially on precise signals like videogames) for the same reason.

That kind of interpolation you mentioned isn't something good for games (and any other material also if you ask me). Being in real-time, those algoritms can't be very precise. They altern fuild moments to some stutters, add visual artifacts and input-lag.
Since about 7 years many TVs (especially SONY) implement BFI and BLS interpolation with a minumum impact on input-lag (previously, these kind of interpolation add quite some lag). But also these processes have some side effects, 'cause most LCDs have edge backlight, so BLS isn't very effective, you add ghosting, half the brightness and improvement on motion is almost absent.

Motion resolution is a carrier topic when talking about gaming, but most people forgot about it. We get used to S&H panels and accept the static resolution as the only parameter that matters even if paradoxically we use TVs for seeing video material (moving pictures) and not photos.
Decent motion resolution on consumer TVs is dead in 2013.

Could you answer my previous questions?

Not really, since I never had a PSP or a modded Ps3.

I can answer about debug colors. They're for narrow down the field for knowing what's preventing the game to boot.

About CDDA @Berion already answered you.
There are some Ps2 CD games with multiple bin files, but I never had one of them so I never asked myself how to handle them.
I don't know if ISOBuster can do the job.

CRT offering native resolution, while PDP/LCD/OLED scaling it. How it is handle by TV, determining the quality. It always be worst than native but... on new TVs You can display image without scanlines and if PPI vs distance from TV is enough, with good algorithms for upscaling, result can be not bad.

Personally I'm a fan of lossless algo (nearest neighbour) but none of the TV which I saw, using it. So output picture is always more or less, blurred. I hate that, but there are peoples which don't like crisp "pixel perfect". So, this is more just personal preferences. Oh, and we have also aspects of used cables, and matrix colours. Some TV also adding sub frames to "emulate" 60fps. It is not easy topic.

About scanlines/240p-Ps1-games, as I said I really prefere to not have them.

i.e. I like the picture on the Mivar CRT also because being a entry level CRT, the mask is poor quality and heat makes it to get thinner. So you don't see the grid, like on a black & white CRT. Plus there's some vertical bloom that makes the colored lines to overflow a little, so you pratically don't see the scanlines from the normal viewing distance.

This cannot happen i.e. on a PVM monitor, where black lines are large as much as the colored ones.

 

[sandungas]

Indeed, on HD digital panels, SD resolution is not only blurred but also colors are washed out (more or less depending on the scaler's quality, but it's always definitely visible, especially on precise signals like videogames) for the same reason.

Personally i dont dislike this effect btw, we could say is like a "low quality" smooth filter
My problem is i hate that effect (not sure how is named in english) that happens at the edges of the polygons that looks like an stairs of pixels
Lets say... if you have a character very polygonal, dressed in white tones in front of a dark background, his contour is going to look horrible
Is not a matter of the display, is because the amount of pixels dedicated to represent that geometry was small
The only thing we can do is multiply them, or/and apply algorythms to recalculate colors
One of the emulators inside the PS3 firmware have an option to enable an smoothing filter, but the result is "meh" because is not following any smart detection of the geomerty

In my oppinion the best technology is what some HDMI cables does (in the range of the 200$ price), they scans the image to try to detect the polygon edges and apply the smoothing in the edges only, and some more additional effects
But i would never buy one of that cables, i think thats not the right way to do it, that technology should be included in the TV's because already have processors that could do it
Dunno, maybe already exists some TV with this kind of features

 

[Berion]

You are talking about aliasing and lack of anti-aliasing filtering. This have nothing to d with cables and matrices.

 

[Peppe90]

Personally i dont dislike this effect btw, we could say is like a "low quality" smooth filter
My problem is i hate that effect (not sure how is named in english) that happens at the edges of the polygons that looks like an stairs of pixels
Lets say... if you have a character very polygonal, dressed in white tones in front of a dark background, his contour is going to look horrible
Is not a matter of the display, is because the amount of pixels dedicated to represent that geometry was small
The only thing we can do is multiply them, or/and apply algorythms to recalculate colors
One of the emulators inside the PS3 firmware have an option to enable an smoothing filter, but the result is "meh" because is not following any smart detection of the geomerty

In my oppinion the best technology is what some HDMI cables does (in the range of the 200$ price), they scans the image to try to detect the polygon edges and apply the smoothing in the edges only, and some more additional effects
But i would never buy one of that cables, i think thats not the right way to do it, that technology should be included in the TV's because already have processors that could do it
Dunno, maybe already exists some TV with this kind of features

I know those HDMI cables (saw some videos, never thought of buying on of them...).

I remember the Ps3 smoothing filter wasn't that bad on Crash Bandicoot, but at last I disabled it. I prefere crystal clear picture tolerating some aliasing.
I always keep any smothing filter disabled for this reason, like in God of War, Silent Hill 3, Tekken 5, etc...

Many LCD tvs have the contour improvement option (even my 2009 samsung LCD has it and works very well). It makes the contours marked, highlights them without adding any blur. Btw I never tried it on games, I'll check it next time I connect a console to it.

But to be honest, all those functions are flapdoodles... When you are used to play Ps2 on a good** CRT you cannot take LCD as a serious alternative. There's too much quality difference in the basic/most important aspects.

That said you can just not care. I too played many games on a TN laptop monitor. I finished Ninja Gaiden Black connecting the Xbox to the full HD LCD with a composite cable, I'm not died for it, it's just gaming. But I cannot say that what I saw on LCD was comparable to CRT quality, it's ridiculous to just think of it. Isn't a matter of minutiae, it's like night and day.

**When saying a "good CRT" I mean a not defective/well aligned one. Using a good connection (SCART-RGB or at least component), possibly 28/29" as maximum size (relatively to 4:3 screen).

 

[Windows10User]

Not really, since I never had a PSP or a modded Ps3.

I can answer about debug colors. They're for narrow down the field for knowing what's preventing the game to boot.

About CDDA @Berion already answered you.
There are some Ps2 CD games with multiple bin files, but I never had one of them so I never asked myself how to handle them.
I don't know if ISOBuster can do the job.

Could you help me with 3), 7) and 9)?

 

[Hadi_ir]

I can't play any PS1 game on my FHD TV. It says "no signal". I think it's because I'm using the PS2 to HDMI Converter adaptor but I no longer have composite/component cables.

EDIT: I added the "$HDTVFIX" entry to the CHEATS.txt file on the POPS folder and I no longer have the "no signal" message when playing PS1 games.

I have convertor adapter and use for ps2 sometimes play ps1 games and no problem
1-run ps1 game directly with xx.game.elf file not with opl ( opl crash sometimes)
2- reformat ur flash memory
3- make sure ur cable is fine

 

[Windows10User]

I have convertor adapter and use for ps2 sometimes play ps1 games and no problem
1-run ps1 game directly with xx.game.elf file not with opl ( opl crash sometimes)
2- reformat ur flash memory
3- make sure ur cable is fine

I'm using official component cables but I'm unable to play PS1 games via POPStarter.

Could you help me here?

 

[Peppe90]

Could you help me with 3), 7) and 9)?

CDDA tracks are separated bin files for the tracks. Search about it online for a more in depth explanation.

I don't know about the other 2 questions, never modded the Ps3 (aside one time with HAN, only for changing the console region and edit some PARAM.SFO).

 

[Windows10User]

CDDA tracks are separated bin files for the tracks. Search about it online for a more in depth explanation.

I don't know about the other 2 questions, never modded the Ps3 (aside one time with HAN, only for changing the console region and edit some PARAM.SFO).

Ok, but I don't understand what CDDA files have to do with my question.