Can't reclaim any disk space on HEN

Psy-Q

Psy-Q

Forum Noob
I ran out of disk space while ripping games on HEN with Multiman. MM shows "0.00 GB" available and the HFW popped up a message like "less than 500 MB of storage available".

I've then deleted over 30 GB of games downloaded from PSN, but MM still shows 0.00 GB. So I also deleted about 50 GB of games from hdd0/GAMES via MM file manager and deleted the game cache -- that changed nothing. Rebuilding database and restoring filesystem doesn't help.

How could I reclaim the space?

I'm now running a backup so I can reformat/restore in the worst case, but I'm worried this might not help either :(
 
are you using HDD or SSD?

what is the size of the drive?

did you use PS3 Unlock HDD Space? (or other method to adjust free space)
 
ps3 unlock is what I was thinking of. I have a 1TB hdd myself, and I have all my games installed, about 50 of them, and I still have about 200+GBs left. most of my games are pkgs, so they don't install to the hdd. I had star ocean install, but I haven't tested the others. playing ys ix now, then probably either dq xi or tales of graces f on the ps3.
 
Where are you checking the disk space?
Could you check what webMAN reports when you press SELECT+START?

I wonder if you have turned "On" the following setting in the ★ Debug Settings menu:
upload_2021-7-9_19-46-22.png

NOTE: This is QA menu, I don't know if it is available on HEN. I'm mentioning it only as a possibility.
 
It's a 500 GB HDD and I'm reading the disk free size in the lower left corner of mmCM (it's only in some of the themes).

The warning about "less than 500 MB free" comes from the HFW. Looks like a normal gray popup box in the top right so it would probably also look like this on OFW. I noticed Managunz also warns "less than 1024 MB free" in a red popup. Trophies can't be synced either, it bombs with "not enough disk space to perform operation". So I assume the PS3's filesystem actually thinks it's full when it isn't.

Deleting a game doesn't free up even a single MB, that's the bizarre part. I've deleted PSN download games via HFW and MM-managed ones via MM file manager and MM's game menu, but the disk reading stays at 0.00 GB.

I didn't use PS3 Unlock HDD Space since I didn't need more space before. I could try that if it perhaps triggers a recalculation of free space. I *know* there must be ~100 GB free after everything I deleted.

I'll check if HFW has the debug menu when my backup is done (6 more hours).

Thank you all!
 
Psy-Q said:
I didn't use PS3 Unlock HDD Space since I didn't need more space before. I could try that if it perhaps triggers a recalculation of free space.
Click to expand...
i would recommend NOT using it right now. find the problem first. i thought it might be causing the problem if you had used it.
 
The progress so far: I don't have the debug menu on HFW, but I made a backup of the PS3 to an external HDD. The backup size was 400 GB so my guess of having ~100 GB free wasn't that far off.

I then installed a 1 TB SSD (I wanted something bigger anyway), reinstalled HFW 4.88 and am restoring the backup now. It says it will take 12 hours but the backup time estimate was off by about 50% too so I guess I won't have news before tomorrow.

My hope is that I can at least use the ~600 GB extra space then. I'll be extremely careful watching the free space numbers after I delete a game in Managunz or mmCM from now on. I hope they actually increase now, otherwise something is really, really weird on my system.
 
Well, good news, sort of. Restore went well, reapplied HEN (crashed once while doing that, second attempt worked). It now shows 408.01 GB free. Ripping a game brought that down to 403.74, then deleting that game via MM made it grow back to 408.00. I don't care about the .01 :)

What bugs me, though:
  1. Why did deleting over 100 GB of games when there was "0.00 GB" free not free up any space? And why do those 100 GB seem to still be blocked (as if they had been part of the backup)?
  2. Could it be that deleting a game via FTP instead of in the MM interface somehow interfered? It seems other people have had similar problems before, but with PKG files (I don't use those except for MM and Managunz). And there was one thread where "restore file system" solved the problem, but this didn't work for me.
I'm mostly wondering so that I can avoid making the same mistake again. I have enough space to rip most of my collection now, so that's fine.
 
I would also be careful deleting data on PS3 side outside XMB because it doesn't do in the same time as user choose option to delete. For some reason, this bug (?) was introduced past firmware 4.21. In example when I delete game in multiMAN, no space are left, game disappear but HDD doing nothing. I messing around some menus, and judging by led, it starts deleting data. After that, space was free up and game gone for good. Maybe those problems are somehow connected.
 
Ah, that could be, yes. But can I even use XMB to delete a game that's in /dev_hdd0/GAMES as a JB folder? I thought XMB only saw games from e.g. PSN that are installed internally as well as game data installed from (mounted) discs?

Edit: Oh, and you are right, it did take a while of disk activity even after MM was "done" deleting before it actually finished and adjusted the free space numbers.
 
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Bonjour @Berion, @Coro.

Je ne sais pas si j'ai "tout juste" mais je pense avoir trouvé la solution pour vraiment rendre l'espace d'un jeu quand il a été supprimé.

En fait, je réalise ce travail en installant ou supprimant les jeux au format ISO (dossiers : PSXISO, PS2ISO, PS3ISO, etc ...) depuis une installation via "FileZilla" par Ethernet. Si je détruit un jeu, je me place dans le dossier où je dois détruire le ou les jeux, je supprime le/les jeux depuis FileZilla et je regarde si la led d'activité du DD de la PS3 est allumée après la demande de suppression. Si ce n'est pas le cas, j'ouvre un autre dossier (par ex. PS3ISO si c'était un ou des jeux PS2 à détruire) et je reviens lire le contenu du dossier contenant le/les jeux à détruire et là, la led du DD s'active pendant un plus ou moins long moment. C'est la preuve que le travail du type "garbage collection" est en cours. L'espace libre est définitivement rendu dès que la LED d'activité du DD est éteinte (selon la place prise par le/les jeux sur le DD).

J'ai fait cette manipulation de très nombreuses fois et j'ai toujours eu les résultats attendus sur la place disponible sur mon DD interne.
Faites cette manipulation et vous constaterez les résultats, c'est flagrant.


In English via G-Trad (car je suis une bille en Anglais) :

I don't know if I "barely" but I think I found the solution to really make a game's space when it was deleted.

In fact, I do this work by installing or removing games in ISO format (folders: PSXISO, PS2ISO, PS3ISO, etc ...) from an installation via "FileZilla" over Ethernet. If I destroy a game, I go to the folder where I have to destroy the game (s), I delete the game (s) from FileZilla and I check if the PS3 HD activity led is on after the delete request . If this is not the case, I open another folder (eg PS3ISO if it was one or more PS2 games to be destroyed) and I come back to read the contents of the folder containing the game (s) to be destroyed and there, the HDD led is activated for a longer or shorter time. This is proof that the "garbage collection" type of work is in progress. The free space is definitively returned as soon as the HDD activity LED is off (depending on the space taken by the game(s) on the HDD).

I have done this manipulation many times and I have always had the expected results in the space available on my internal HD.
Do this manipulation and you will see the results, it is obvious.
 
Oh wow, merci, Algol, pour tous ces détails. Donc la prochaine fois que je fais une désinstallation d'un jeu je vais la faire comme tu disais. Et surtout pas éteindre la console ! C'est possible que c'est comme ça que ce m'arrivait la dernière fois :(

Thanks again :flustered:

(I am suspecting the problem may have happened due to immediately shutting down the console after a deletion and not allowing time to garbage collect. Next time I'll use Algol's trick.)
 
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Psy-Q said:
What bugs me, though:
  1. Why did deleting over 100 GB of games when there was "0.00 GB" free not free up any space? And why do those 100 GB seem to still be blocked (as if they had been part of the backup)?
  2. Could it be that deleting a game via FTP instead of in the MM interface somehow interfered? It seems other people have had similar problems before, but with PKG files (I don't use those except for MM and Managunz). And there was one thread where "restore file system" solved the problem, but this didn't work for me.
I'm mostly wondering so that I can avoid making the same mistake again. I have enough space to rip most of my collection now, so that's fine.
Click to expand...

I don't know what exactly caused your issue, but one possible reason is that you could have one or more copies of the files in another folder, and you deleted only one of them.

Some homebrews -like webMAN MOD or the shadow copy in multiMAN- copy files in hdd0 using symlink instead of a real file copy. This is done to achieve better performance and save disk space. The symlink creates another file entry that shares the same sectors in the disk of the source file. To recover the disk space, both file entries must be deleted.

Deleting through FTP or File Manager is the same.
 
@Algol Thanks for the tips. It betters shows the workaround which I tried to show.

@aldostools Unfortunately, it is not issue with symlinks. I have broke once HDD logic just by deleting game in multiMAN, without waiting for been really deleted. Game isn't linked anywhere outside. This have teach me that data isn't deleting right after option choosing to delete. I don't know if this is related also to WMM, but for sure to mM. And now, author of this thread have similar problem but with different tool. I believe something has changed in how this function works because on 3.55 I haven't such problems, and also haven't on 4.21 DEX.

@Psy-Q Actually You can be this needs to implement "File Manager" from XMBM+ to Yours XMB with HEN (because if You install XMBM+, HEN disappear, and when You install HEN again, XMBM+ disappear). It is standard XMB functionality, just hidden. Unfortunately only allows to view files and dirs and deleting them (option named: unlink). Maybe @DeViL303 could brings this rto You as my knowledge about HEN is limited and I don't know which modifications are mandatory for it.

PS: It is not "garbage collection". I t was just mind shortcut. For some reason, deleting operation is delaying, and for some reason deleting until user again try to list contents path.
 
Berion said:
@aldostools Unfortunately, it is not issue with symlinks. I have broke once HDD logic just by deleting game in multiMAN, without waiting for been really deleted. Game isn't linked anywhere outside. This have teach me that data isn't deleting right after option choosing to delete. I don't know if this is related also to WMM, but for sure to mM. And now, author of this thread have similar problem but with different tool. I believe something has changed in how this function works because on 3.55 I haven't such
Click to expand...

That's really weird... unless deank changed something in recent versions of multiMAN, the function my_game_delete() in multiMAN deletes recursively using cellFsUnlink() in a similar way like webMAN MOD or IRISMAN (this does a chmod 777 before unlink the file). Curiously multiMAN and IRISMAN use the same name for the function my_game_delete().
 
Coro said:
@Algol i see something similar while using multiman to delete files. it takes a few seconds to begin deleting.
Click to expand...
Salut @Coro

En fait, même au bout de quelques secondes la suppression des fichiers ne se fait pas complètement depuis la commande de suppression lancée par FileZilla (v3.7.2 très ancienne), seulement un éclair bref de la led d'activité du DD, puis plus rien. Le fait de faire lire le DD une nouvelle fois via la lecture d'un autre dossier puis de revenir sur le dossier contenant les fichiers à détruire lance le "Garbage Collection", du moins la suppression totale avec la mise à jour des différents secteurs rendus au système par les jeux supprimés. Je pense fermement que c'est ainsi que cela fonctionne et je pense aussi que cela dépend des priorités du système.
Peut être que @bguerville pourrai le confirmer. (Ben est-tu là ??? Tu as un courrier de ma part).

In fact, even after a few seconds the files are not completely deleted from the delete command launched by FileZilla (very old v3.7.2), only a brief flash of the HDD activity led, then nothing . The fact of having the HDD read again by reading another folder then returning to the folder containing the files to be destroyed launches the "Garbage Collection", at least the total deletion with the update of the various sectors returned to the system by deleted games. I firmly believe that this is how it works and I also believe that it depends on the priorities of the system.

Bonne fin du WE à vous tous.
 
aldostools said:
Some homebrews -like webMAN MOD or the shadow copy in multiMAN- copy files in hdd0 using symlink instead of a real file copy.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I've always ripped using multiMAN's plain "Copy" feature with games arriving in /dev_hdd0/GAMES. If they are symlinks, multiMAN and Managunz' file manager both show them as if they were files (fully dereferenced including real file size).

But I don't know what PSN does. The PSN downloads I've deleted seemed to free up no space either (XMB said e.g. 3780 MB would be freed up, but 0 MB were actually freed even minutes later).

I realize we're not talking about actual garbage collection but I thought Algol's word for what's happening is pretty fitting :)

@aldostools thanks a lot for checking the source. Maybe it is a sync problem? I don't know how the PS3's file system works but some Linux filesystems use an operations cache and only on a call to sync() actually perform most of the writes or deletes. Maybe this is a similar issue when e.g. a game with a large number of small files is being deleted, there are many unlink operations waiting for sync()?
 
Berion said:
@aldostools It is possible that changes in firmware affecting this/those function/s or it is just matter of how lib in sdk is made?
Click to expand...

I wish I could give you an answer... the sdk used didn't change, the function in the homebrew didn't change either, so a change in the way the gameOS handle the delete could have changed...

When a PKG game or game data is deleted through XMB, the folder is first moved to a folder /dev_hdd0/game/_DEL_<timestamp> then the files are deleted from that folder.

Same occurs when a package is installed, they are installed temporarily to /dev_hdd0/game/_INST_<timestamp> then moved to the destination folder.

If the system is turned off during a delete or install operation, the game folder will not exist; but the files still exist in a different folder. But in backup managers, the files are deleted directly from the original location.
 
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