PS3 HELP: huge image quality discrepancy between netemu and native backwards compatibility in CEHCA01

[retrogame339]

Hi there, I posted something similar on Reddit but I think I need the opinions from a more specialized group.

Essentially, I'm worried my emotion engine chip on my lunch model CECHA is damaged? I was showing SH2 to my gf last night and noticed how bad it looks on my fully backwards compatible system. Today I wanted to check my sanity and indeed switching the PS3 to netemu looks far better.

In back compat mode the fog effect is nauseating as it's just bright white spots or crushed dark spots.

I have tried toggling all the super white, color range, smoothing, etc video and game output settings. Is this normal behavior??

Someone on Reddit was telling me that indeed this is normal because apparently the full hardware backwards compatibility is slightly inferior to both the hybrid and emulated PS2? I'm happy to accept that response except:

1. This is not a slightly inferior image, the fog effect is completely off. It does not look at all like the PS2 original
2. I have seen some footage of backwards compatible PS3s handling this game and those look much closer to the netemu version.

My underlying concern is that my PS2 hardware was damaged during the Frankenstein process on my PS3. Does anyone have a CECHA01 launch model? Does your native PS2 capability look like mine?

 

[opssemnik]

On Full BC systems, the PS2 video is outputted as RGB back to the Cell which can then use the RSX to apply the basic filtering options that it has

With that said, it does not have "bad video" or "worse quality" as people like to claim, it just does not have any fancy upscaling and filtering, since the ps3 side receives a rgb signal. effectevely you are getting what the PS2 really had, with a very basic form of upscalling

On gx emu/net emu, because the GPU is emulated, the system can apply deeper patches to have more in-depth upscaling/filtering, at the expense of worse incompatibility and differences from the original game

With that in mind, your issue to me really looks like bad filtering, it looks like when you make a RGB mod without the proper resistors in place. It could also be that the EE+GS got damaged during the frankenstein mod. cecha boards are known to take a lot of heat and dissipate it, and we also dont know how well it was handled during the mod

HOWEVER (plot twist), while we call cecha a "full bc", it technically is not, since it does need to emulate some stuff the PS3 did not include, such as peripheral management(fun fact, it even emulates an iLink port, which not even the PCSX2 does), and some smaller things

Because of this, it does not have 100% compatibility (technically, not even the late ps2 slim models had 100% compatibility)
Silent Hill 2 and 3 are both listed as problematic when searching around posts from 2008-2010, most notably, it seemed sony had an official guidance of "skipping any FMV" in SH2 and 3 to avoid glitches, unfortunately, it does not go depeer into what those glitches are

Is this easy to replicate? i could spin up Sh2 on my franken to see if i get the same results or not

 

[retrogame339]

On Full BC systems, the PS2 video is outputted as RGB back to the Cell which can then use the RSX to apply the basic filtering options that it has

With that said, it does not have "bad video" or "worse quality" as people like to claim, it just does not have any fancy upscaling and filtering, since the ps3 side receives a rgb signal. effectevely you are getting what the PS2 really had, with a very basic form of upscalling

On gx emu/net emu, because the GPU is emulated, the system can apply deeper patches to have more in-depth upscaling/filtering, at the expense of worse incompatibility and differences from the original game

With that in mind, your issue to me really looks like bad filtering, it looks like when you make a RGB mod without the proper resistors in place. It could also be that the EE+GS got damaged during the frankenstein mod. cecha boards are known to take a lot of heat and dissipate it, and we also dont know how well it was handled during the mod

HOWEVER (plot twist), while we call cecha a "full bc", it technically is not, since it does need to emulate some stuff the PS3 did not include, such as peripheral management(fun fact, it even emulates an iLink port, which not even the PCSX2 does), and some smaller things

Because of this, it does not have 100% compatibility (technically, not even the late ps2 slim models had 100% compatibility)
Silent Hill 2 and 3 are both listed as problematic when searching around posts from 2008-2010, most notably, it seemed sony had an official guidance of "skipping any FMV" in SH2 and 3 to avoid glitches, unfortunately, it does not go depeer into what those glitches are

Is this easy to replicate? i could spin up Sh2 on my franken to see if i get the same results or not

Really appreciate the response! I feel part of me is just a bit disheartened at the thought that I put so much effort into this PS3 thinking I was doing it because it was the closest thing to a PS2 I could get. I hear what you're saying, about the full BC not having any extra bells and whistles. But look at this image, it's like the fog isn't even transparent.

I would definitely appreciate you seeing what your results are! To replicate, simply try the game with your BC ps3, and then with webman you can select the net_emu settings in the scan for content section - that will force the emulator.

 

[opssemnik]

Here are the photos from my cecha01 frankie in hw mode:
https://imgur.com/a/606gKBk

Apparently i dont seem to have your issues, but you tell me how these images look for you

 

[retrogame339]

Here are the photos from my cecha01 frankie in hw mode:
https://imgur.com/a/606gKBk

Apparently i dont seem to have your issues, but you tell me how these images look for you

Yeah, those look normal. Damn. Something is messed up with mine. At least now I can confirm. Would you mind grabbing some shots from that initial fog down the stairs?

 

[opssemnik]

Yeah, those look normal. Damn. Something is messed up with mine. At least now I can confirm. Would you mind grabbing some shots from that initial fog down the stairs?

Sorry to hear, unfortunately PS2 side issues are not that uncommon after frankies, in your case, if the issue exists across the board, then i would say its a bad cap/filter on the rgb connection from ee+gs back to the cell or rsx

if the issue is specific to this type of shading, then while it can also be those, it can be the ee+gs dying

I guess this is something people are learning along the way, on the initial frankies PS2 side was never really checked properly, but i believe modders do check now as there is more information about how to and what to check.

Here are the pics
https://imgur.com/a/VciWzKM

EDIT: Also, to make sure, im not watching any of the FMVs, im skipping all of them

 

[retrogame339]

Sorry to hear, unfortunately PS2 side issues are not that uncommon after frankies, in your case, if the issue exists across the board, then i would say its a bad cap/filter on the rgb connection from ee+gs back to the cell or rsx

if the issue is specific to this type of shading, then while it can also be those, it can be the ee+gs dying

I guess this is something people are learning along the way, on the initial frankies PS2 side was never really checked properly, but i believe modders do check now as there is more information about how to and what to check.

Here are the pics
https://imgur.com/a/VciWzKM

EDIT: Also, to make sure, im not watching any of the FMVs, im skipping all of them

Yeah. That's the correct rendering. I'm so damn bummed man. Contacted the shop that did my frankie. They're saying the warranty does not cover PS2 issues, which is frustrating, but even more frustrating is that they're saying the chances of them fixing it are slim.

I'm a bit at a loss. But thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[RIP-Felix]

IDK who sold you that frankie, but given how infrequent such an issue is, I would think they should give you a partial refund. It's not like they'll have to deal with this all the time. Plus it's an oppritunity to try and fix whatever's causing it.

A while back I was playing red dead revolver and it seemed rather blurry. Almost like there were 2 ghosted images out of alignment with one another. I've been meaning to boot up a real PS2 to see if it's the same there too.

See when it comes to how a PS2 game should look on real hardware, or what certain kinds of visual artifacts various hardware issues cause, I'm not experianced.

Basically if it plays a PS2 game and doesn't have obvious flashing textures or lines, we call the ps2 working and continue with stress testing ps3 games. I should get familiar with what common PS2 issues look like so I can recognize if there's a...IDK, filtering issue on the RGB line. Or whatever.

Anyone know of a good common PS2 issues list?

EDIT:
I pulled out my copy of SH2 and I didn't notice the same issues on my 40nm A01 either. So this appears to be an isolated incident.

 

[Legetzu]

I have a bit different issue with my frankie, that black is not fully black in PS2 mode, so I thought might as well post it also here if this has something to do with something being broken/damaged from Frankenstein mod or does everyone have this issue? PS3 games don't have this issue and HDMI range doesn't make a difference and I match the PS3's range from TV's settings. I've already made my own thread about my issue: PS3 - CECHA/B PS3 black level issue on PS2 games | PSX-Place

 

[LuanTeles]

Hi there, I posted something similar on Reddit but I think I need the opinions from a more specialized group.

Essentially, I'm worried my emotion engine chip on my lunch model CECHA is damaged? I was showing SH2 to my gf last night and noticed how bad it looks on my fully backwards compatible system. Today I wanted to check my sanity and indeed switching the PS3 to netemu looks far better.

In back compat mode the fog effect is nauseating as it's just bright white spots or crushed dark spots.

I have tried toggling all the super white, color range, smoothing, etc video and game output settings. Is this normal behavior??

Someone on Reddit was telling me that indeed this is normal because apparently the full hardware backwards compatibility is slightly inferior to both the hybrid and emulated PS2? I'm happy to accept that response except:

1. This is not a slightly inferior image, the fog effect is completely off. It does not look at all like the PS2 original
2. I have seen some footage of backwards compatible PS3s handling this game and those look much closer to the netemu version.

My underlying concern is that my PS2 hardware was damaged during the Frankenstein process on my PS3. Does anyone have a CECHA01 launch model? Does your native PS2 capability look like mine?

For me seems like the dithering is off in the images with the worse quality (color bending)

 

[retrogame339]

View attachment 44825
I have a bit different issue with my frankie, that black is not fully black in PS2 mode, so I thought might as well post it also here if this has something to do with something being broken/damaged from Frankenstein mod or does everyone have this issue? PS3 games don't have this issue and HDMI range doesn't make a difference and I match the PS3's range from TV's settings. I've already made my own thread about my issue: PS3 - CECHA/B PS3 black level issue on PS2 games | PSX-Place

I'll check tonight on my system. You should post comparison pics so it's easier to tell the difference you see. For me, my specific issue was fixed after my technician reflowed the EEGS.

 

[Legetzu]

I'll check tonight on my system. You should post comparison pics so it's easier to tell the difference you see. For me, my specific issue was fixed after my technician reflowed the EEGS.

Here's with netemu.

As you can see, there's no grayish 4:3 corners on netemu.

I have local dimming LCD TV, so the backlight should shut down in the places where the image is black, but in the case of PS2 games on PS2_emu, that never happens. With regular LCD TV you may not be able to see this.

 

[retrogame339]

Here's with netemu.
View attachment 44828

As you can see, there's no grayish 4:3 corners on netemu.

I have local dimming LCD TV, so the backlight should shut down in the places where the image is black, but in the case of PS2 games on PS2_emu, that never happens. With regular LCD TV you may not be able to see this.

Very interesting. If I were you, I'd grab a very basic computer monitor and test there. There's a slight chance the netemu and PS2 hardware interact differently with a fancier TV with local dimming? Also, I'm assuming you've already played around with the PS3s display settings? The full color gamut and superwhite and what not?

 

[Legetzu]

Very interesting. If I were you, I'd grab a very basic computer monitor and test there. There's a slight chance the netemu and PS2 hardware interact differently with a fancier TV with local dimming? Also, I'm assuming you've already played around with the PS3s display settings? The full color gamut and superwhite and what not?

I've tried with normal PC monitor, and you can't really see it there as the IPS backlight glow is stronger than the PS2_emu grayish background, so it doesn't bother me on monitor. The devices shouldn't interact in any way with Local dimming, cause it's done by TV as a whole. Local dimming algorithm works by checking which part's are dark, and then the TV shuts off backlight on those zones. Even my OG Xbox with analog component works well with local dimming. On OLED I would think this issue would be even more apparent, than on local dimming LCD.

And yes, I've tried changing every PS3 display setting.