PS3 Homebrew Community Rewards / Devs + Regular Users

[Lambada]

Hello guys, I was reading a post in PKGi thread and I had an idea that maybe it's worth sharing. This is how I was inspired:

Time is scarce for devs, we have lives and full-time jobs; it would be a perfect world if we could just spend time on homebrew requests but user donations are almost non-existent (e.g., recently we had to struggle to get funds for aldostools replacement PS3 or the bgtoolset web-hosting, and both are at the top of most used ps3 stuff)

@bucanero , maybe extra things/features that a regular user from community ask, devs could list these feature suggestions and evaluate the difficulty of it, impact, how long would it take to develop and prioritize the issues.
The devs could discuss what to attack first and which one i a interested or have more experience in it, some of you could be the mentor of each other, like a pair coding.
Then list it just like kickstarter for example, with a donation meter / rewards. When it reaches $ from the user base the feature X can be done.
I think maybe this way everyone wins, new challenges, learning with each other and the ps3 homebrew having a breath of fresh air.

What do you think guys @aldostools , @Zar , @Crystal , @bguerville , @STLcardsWS ?

PS: I know this topic subject is homebrew related but it's also community / PS3 scene topic that I think needed attention, that's why I think that in General Discussion it would have more views. I'm not organizing this movement, I'm just throwing some ideas here so that we can think about and maybe act.

 

[bguerville]

I dunno what to respond tbph, I do believe the community should get its act together & people should chip in if they want to see lasting homebrew development, bigger projects including hardware mods & regular new hacks, if they don't, the hacks that can be sold will be sold instead, development projects will rarely last & those that do will take a long time to mature, websites will keep closing down without warnings & hardware mods will remain anecdotal.
The truth is we can only go so far on the back of good will in this world.
That's a fact, it does not matter how we feel about it.
Devs & some contributors already put in a time investment, they cannot be expected to also take care of financing every aspect of every project for everyone else & keep at it for the next 2 decades.
The way I see it, what the community decides to do or not to do about this will decide its fate on the long term. I think the ps4 scene is currently a glimpse of what the future will look like if nothing is done about it, and we would probably not even have what we have if the bounty system had been up by the time the ps4 was initially released.
CTurt's work inspired much of what followed, consider what may have happened (or not happen for that matter) if he had claimed a bounty rather than release it publicly..
How many kernel exploits would have surfaced?
And we shall see what happens with the ps5, at this rate, I would not expect wonders.

Other than that, I am not arrogant enough to believe I hold any truth or definitive solutions, I think my opinion on the subject is only the opinion of a tiny minority & my pushing towards community investment in development will most likely sound self serving to some.
In any case, if any decent initiative comes up & my help is wanted, I may consider helping but in the backseat.

 

[Lambada]

I didn't know that a bounty system could backfire the scene. I never understood why ps4 scene was slow, maybe because I don't have a ps4.
Does anyone know if the bounty system really work in Retroarch?

 

[bguerville]

The hackerone bounty system rewards any bug found in the PSN network & in the PS4/PS5 OSes as long as you can provide ways to demonstrate it.
There are several categories of rewards depending on how critical the bug is, maximum reward is USD 50k iirc.
I would assume they will stop rewarding ps4 bug claims in the near future, I am not sure what their calendar is & covid might have messed with their original ps5 plans.

 

[aldostools]

It's true that most of the developers and modders need funds for their projects (hosting, spare consoles, flashers, etc.).

All current developers (including me) dedicate time and create stuff for the scene because we enjoy it, not for money. I feel that having a reward system just to get fixes, new features or ideally new homebrews could have a negative effect. I could be wrong, but that's just an opinion

 

[bguerville]

It's true that most of the developers and modders need funds for their projects (hosting, spare consoles, flashers, etc.).

All current developers (including me) dedicate time and create stuff for the scene because we enjoy it, not for money. I feel that having a reward system just to get fixes, new features or ideally new homebrews could have a negative effect. I could be wrong, but that's just an opinion

Monetizing our services is not at all what I have in mind. I am thinking more on the line of research & development funds as well as maintenance funds to keep projects alive.
Like you said we invest time because we like it, we don't care to be paid for that but everything else is another matter..

It's also a matter of what we want to achieve collectively at the end of the day, bringing money into this is not ideal I grant you that much, we always did without it mostly until now but what did we achieve after years of development?
Far from me the idea of belittling our efforts (past & present), ps3 hackers & devs have been wonderful, but we can ask the question frankly. Given the fact that the ps3 has been totally open to us for years, did we really do wonders? A dozen active devs may have done so but 3 or 4 at a time with limited time?
When you think about its origin story, HEN was created almost by accident, the far downstream consequence of Jason & I meeting up & starting to research web browser exploits. Despite the years passing by, I am pretty sure there would still be no HEN solutions for non CFW compatibles if it had not been for that fortuitous & out of the blue collaboration. But we should not count on such random events if we want a homebrew scene on ps4/ps5.
What is being achieved on ps4 right now since it is more likely to serve as reference for the future?
How many people are looking for exploits to share with the public as we speak? Never mind devs working on ps4 homebrew projects..
I also remember a number of alternative exploit techniques (through the Southbridge or HDMI) that were reported by fail0verflow ages ago, nothing ever surfaced after that which probably means nobody has been seriously looking into it.
I think our main problems are a serious shortage of skilled people getting involved & a strong demand for piracy only and I fear that things will only get worse so I humbly suggest we adapt..
Also we should be able to network things too, we have people everywhere, in all walks of life, it seems crazy that when we looked for a console for you, we not only had to beg for funds but we could not even use that network to get a console, free or otherwise.

 

[bucanero]

I guess I'm a bit skeptical and I don't expect miracles from the regular lurkers. We usually end up helping ourselves between devs; e.g., if I have a problem, aldos, Zarh or bguerville might jump and answer or help out

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I feel that most community members are not willing to even spend a day helping out filling out a Wiki article. (so is less probable that they'll put money)

 

[bguerville]

I guess I'm a bit skeptical and I don't expect miracles from the regular lurkers. We usually end up helping ourselves between devs; e.g., if I have a problem, aldos, Zarh or bguerville might jump and answer or help out

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I feel that most community members are not willing to even spend a day helping out filling out a Wiki article. (so is less probable that they'll put money)

Don't get me wrong, I am just as skeptical as you are & for the same reasons.
I am merely pointing out that fundamentally, the community could help itself, however I don't really believe it will unfortunately..

 

[atreyu187]

Love helping out but most of the devs I knew in the PS3's prime have moved along to more plentiful & easier to develop for systems. Once we saw HAN/HEN with the ability to flash a CFW via the browser the system seemed to be in a downfall. I am thankful for the ones still pushing what they can do. The scene has evolved so much since the dongle days. Aldos has done some amazing things with webMAN MOD. I recall the guy that came up with this idea and DeanK took it from there. Definitely not at the end of what the system can do but what we do have is amazing. The PS3/360 are what I see as the last thriving homebrew scene.

 

[bguerville]

Everything is relative I suppose but imho the ps3 homebrew choice is quite limited, once you take out the backups managers there is not all that much left. It's no criticism, just a fact.

 

[atreyu187]

Everything is relative I suppose but imho the ps3 homebrew choice is quite limited, once you take out the backups managers there is not all that much left. It's no criticism, just a fact.

Very true as it isn't an ideal emulation environment. I have a bud of mine that has been trying to port PicoDrive to the PS3. From my limited knowledge of what he told me despite having a "dynarec"

The problem is that the dynarecs that would be re-usable normally are incompatible with Cell (and require modifications), and the other problem is that making a dynarec core is hard work and very easy to get wrong.
In fact, it's easier to re-use recompiler code from Wii on 360 with libxenon because Xenon is also a 32bit PPC CPU - it's only Cell that is 64bit (with 32 bit pointers because 64bit would be too much overhead there).