PS4 Marcan (of fail0verflow) Additional details about Linux on the PS4

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Marcan a member of hacking group fail0verflow made a post on the teams blog @fail0verflow.com following the CCC presentation. This blog post provides some additional details about Linux on the PS4 and the current state the project is currently in. Marcan also layed out some of the reasoning to why they are not releasing an exploit, but rather working on porting linux and developing drivers (such as one for 3D acceleration), but the team truly does not feel it will need an exploit as the PS4 security is not as strong as once thought by the community. Also the console hacker does state there is some big possibilities like SteamOS on the PS4 could be a reality on the console if [break]ss[/break] they are able to achieve 3d acceleration which seems like is a strong possibility but something that does take time, so while this news is exciting we have been seeing about the PS4 remember we are in the early stages. This is a good read from one of fail0verflow's hacker with some additional info and if you missed the CCC conference there is a video that can be seen to get you caught up on the PS4 ability to boot Linux.

fail0verflow.png
marcan said:
If you're here, you've probably heard about our lightning talk at the 32nd Chaos Communication Congress demoing Linux on a PS4. This post continues where the talk left off and clarifies a few aspects of what we're doing, and why.


If you haven't yet, please watch the talk before reading the rest of this post:

[video=youtube;PQFNnr6Ly9M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQFNnr6Ly9M[/video]
Slides: Online · Download / source code
Two years ago, I said that the PS4 was not a particularly interesting device, being a glorified PC. What happened?

Essentially, two things: First, we're hackers, and hacking consoles is fun after all. Second, it turned out that the PS4 isn't really a PC (which makes it a more interesting target), while being enough of a PC to have some serious advantages. It's hard enough to be interesting, and easy enough to be practical.

Let's recap the (very simplified) history of game console hacks that we have been involved with

  • On the Wii, we basically drove the entire homebrew community, from exploits to libraries to infrastructure. The community ended up being very large and productive, with lots of interesting releases. However, the people interested in game piracy were always riding on the coattails of homebrew since relatively early on, and greatly benefited from it.
  • On the PS3, we tried releasing the exploits and letting others sort out the community. The result was that, for all practical purposes, the only users were those interested in piracy. AsbestOS allowed Linux to work again, but since there was no GPU driver, and the CPU was underpowered and annoying to work with, there wasn't that much interest beyond those who were already running OtherOS.
  • On the Wii U, we tried to get the community to display interest and work on Linux support before releasing the exploits. Although there were certainly several interested people, nobody with the right experience stepped up to actually make it a reality. Eventually others released exploits, and quickly a piracy tool has become one of the primary use cases for them.

For the PS4, therefore, we're yet again trying something new. It seems that the PS4 security architecture is rather straightforward and simple; the OS is based on FreeBSD, and the browser uses WebKit, both of which are open source. It is relatively easy to find exploits in both of them (all things considered), and that is all you need to chain into a Linux loader. However, as we found out, even though the hardware is certainly similar to a PC, it is not a PC, and Linux needs quite a bit of extra work to get running. Thus, we can add more value to the homebrew ecosystem by helping port Linux than by releasing exploits.

Of course, this also absolves us from responsibility for potentially enabling piracy (and online play hacking and other undesirable outcomes), but we think it might even have a net positive effect: if we can get people interested in running Linux on the PS4 over using the native OS, we can redirect efforts away from reverse engineering the original software infrastructure (which is what the piracy guys need, and they inevitably leech off of those efforts) to Linux (which is completely useless for piracy).

Linux on the PS4 actually makes a lot of sense, more than it ever did on any previous game console. It's close enough to a PC that getting 3D acceleration working, while rather painful (as we've learned), seems entirely possible without undue amounts of effort (in a timeframe of months, not years), to the level needed for real indie games and even AAA titles, not just homebrew. And many thousands of indie and AAA games already run on Linux. Yes, SteamOS on the PS4 should "just work" once the driver issues are sorted out. We demoed a silly GBA emulator because all we had was a 2D framebuffer, but the real fun is getting 3D games to run just like they do on a PC (we've tried some commercial indie games already and they do work fine, just painfully slow as they are using software rendering right now, of course).

Although the exploits used in our demo were our own work (we in fact had Linux booting, albeit in a very broken state, well before any PS4 exploits were publicly announced - porting Linux takes time), the fact that other teams have also been able to get kernel code execution proves the point that you really don't need to depend on us for that aspect. We also have no doubt that vulnerabilities in the latest firmware can be found without too much trouble. Incidentally, everything is pure software. Hardware stuff was only used for research. There is not much reason to resort to hardware-based exploits on an architecture like the PS4, with a very wide attack surface and mediocre isolation.

So, to the community: if you're interested, we really think this is the way to go for the PS4. Write an exploit, point it to our loader, and you'll get Linux (we'll help you get it hooked up/debugged if needed). And if you want piracy, as usual, go away.

As for release timeframes: right now, the code is in a pretty ugly state, and some components are not releasable (e.g. they contain a bit of code that has been directly reverse engineered from Sony modifications to FreeBSD and needs to be rewritten/cleanroomed). Our goal is to eventually get the patches upstreamed in the Linux kernel, but in the meantime we will open up a work-in-progress repo as soon as is practical. If you're interested, want to contribute, and have access to a PS4 kernel level exploit, feel free to get in contact with us so we know who wants to help out.

For those curious: the current status of 3D support is that we can get the kernel driver to enable acceleration (with some issues), but command buffer execution is currently broken because GPUVM is not working properly (page flipping works, but nothing is rendered, as the command buffer itself triggers a GPU page fault). We're actively working on debugging this. If you happen to work on the Radeon DRI driver or are familiar with it, we could use a hand here ;).

TL;DR: We're working on Linux kernel patches, and are looking to get them upstreamed. We're not releasing exploits - we're certain other people will. Don't ask us. And if you want free games, go away.
Source: fail0verflow.com
 
The PS4's security can't be as poor as they are implying. I mean look at the Vita that SOB is locked down but then again this might be them talking about homebrew aspect only not piracy means.
 
The PS4's security can't be as poor as they are implying. I mean look at the Vita that SOB is locked down but then again this might be them talking about homebrew aspect only not piracy means.

I think he meant homebrew as well, and i agree with the VITA statement. Linux is amazing IF you know how the command structure is used. Been using Linux off and on for about 20 years, Way back in the early RED HAT days. There wasn't as many "Flavor" as there is nowadays. Kernels compiled for just about every device that will run them, even a few you never thought could.
 
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The PS4's security can't be as poor as they are implying. I mean look at the Vita that SOB is locked down but then again this might be them talking about homebrew aspect only not piracy means.

great they are working on a kernel, XBMC and emulation comes to mind, but I would like to see a FW emu.
 
Kodi.tv use it everyday :) try tvaddons.ag for a pre-loaded with addon too, Install Genesis,Phoenix,1channel. They have everything you need from live channel stream to "in theater" now. PM me for help
 
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I think he is talking about Kodi.
But still XBMC was a god name if you don't pronouns the meaning of it.

Still have a hard time with Kodi as the new name.

What makes me giggle is XBMC4XBOX I mean really? Isn't that the name for it still for the OXbox? Haven't turned mine on in years. Poor Halo edition still sitting here all dusty. Was a hardcore Xbox fan as I see it as the spiritual successor of the Dreamcast. Had MS not treated me so poorly when both of my launch day 360's RROD on me within the same week I wouldn't have ever known just how big of a PS fan I really am. I didn't get my first PS2 till long after the slims came out. This was before MS fessed up to errors with the hardware. One of my systems RROD on me so I sent it in for repair. While it was in the shop the second one did the same thing. Their "support" blamed it on me for poor care of the system. Made me send in all of my hardware and software for a through inspection. If it was deemed as not my fault then they would repair it for free despite both still being under manufacture warranty. Of course neither were my fault after their test had been conducted and I was out both systems for nearly 60 days. Didn't get a sorry which was all I wanted. Instead I got 3months of XBL. They lost a customer for life and Sony gained a dedicated fan. Kinda glad it happened as I think the PS3 is much better. I won a dual RGH 360 for free and only played the Gears games on it. I still have it since it was won in a contest and feel it would be ill to profit from it. It still sits dormant without use since the launch of Gears of War Judgement. Been offered a lot for it many times but refuse to sell it. At least the slims look better and are much better hardware wise. Had it not been for Epic signing an exclusive deal for the series I would have never turned it on. Not a FPS fan, in fact I hate them but have been tempted to buy some of the great SHMUPS especially from CAVE for the JP region but they are pricey!!!
 
I may sound ignorant in saying this but..

Even though linux is free to use isnt sony just going to upgrade the firmware to make its exploit more difficult.. I assumed to only way to ensure this cat and mouse game ends with devs and sony is to develop a full running CFW thats upgradable.. well it wont end but the devs will have an advantage.. I am only saying because thats exactly what happened when someone managed to play emulators on the ps4
 
I respect marcan a lot, but when it comes to the PS3, he is talking through his arse and sh*t's on every awesome dev in the PS3 scene, like graf_chokolo :(
 
Graf was just amazing. He fought the good fight in my eyes. Even after being raided he continued his pursuit of knowledge.
 
I respect marcan a lot, but when it comes to the PS3, he is talking through his arse and sh*t's on every awesome dev in the PS3 scene, like graf_chokolo :(

Personally I disagree with some of his(marcan) remarks of the ps3 scene. Not as ugly as he states. Which is the what others on outside will believe instead of opinions from people within the communities . It's not as he desribe things imo
 
Personally I disagree with some of his(marcan) remarks of the ps3 scene. Not as ugly as he states. Which is the what others on outside will believe instead of opinions from people within the communities . It's not as he desribe things imo

Wiibrew that led the ultimate piracy destroyed the Korean wii market and we ended up not getting WiiU.

So yeah he can add this on the statement too.




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Wiibrew that led the ultimate piracy destroyed the Korean wii market and we ended up not getting WiiU.

So yeah he can add this on the statement too.

I was speaking of the PS3 scene, i can't so much comment on the wii as i was really not apart of that community.. I guess this line about the PS3 " The only user we those interested in piracy" is a statement that is really flat out wrong. Because there were many that wanted to see the PS3 scene explode like the PSP scene. Which was a very good homebrew scene. Your always going to have people screaming for piracy, but the user's and people who stick around the community. They have Interest in System Hacks and Homebrew development. That is what a Majority of the Scene wants first and foremost. So i disagree with what he is saying about the PS3 community. Its an unfair assessment of what the communities are really about. Its an assessment during a small window of a small group of user's.

I do respect the approach they chose and it should be a good one as they can focus on making a really good linux port something the PS3 was lacking as he mentions due to the limitations and that is the reason for the lack of interest, was not that the community was focused on piracy as he suggest.
 
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