PS2 PS2 and VGA monitors

[ragen-fio]

Ciao! Has anyone of the forum ever tried using the PS2 with a VGA monitor via GSM? In the last year and a half, in the little free time I had, I've tried several times with results that vary widely between games that work perfectly, others that have a jagged image or jagged text and perfect in game graphics, to others that don't go beyond a black screen or language selection.

When I started experimenting I used various LCD monitors because they support RGsB so the hardware was a simple AV-->VGA cable, but, except for some shmups on a Dell Ultrasharp that has a pivoting screen, I never liked the image quality of the PS2 on an LCD (i don't like any console up to the 6th generation on an LCD ) so I stopped the tests waiting to find a CRT monitor...
A few months ago I finally found a Nokia 17" CRT monitor, nothing special but a good starting point, it doesn't support Sync on Green so I had to mod one of my PS2s to eliminate it, and I had to build a sync separator with an LM1881, the compatibility results were identical to those obtained with LCDs but with infinitely better image quality. Games such as Burnout 3 Takedown, God of War 2, Death by Degrees, Crash Nitro Kart, Black, Half Life 2 and many others really shines and are superb on this screen, so I started writing a games compatibility list, giving, in a non-scientific way, a vote from 0 to 10 depending on the results and based on personal preferences, but having hundreds of games to test and little time available it will take months. And for now i've tested only 45 games.

To avoid problems with the monitor I set a resolution of 1280x1024 @60Hz in GSM and I don't know if changing it could increase games compatibility, but it would be too demanding to test dozens of resolutions for hundreds of games. So these are tests that I do for my curiosity and are not intended as an absolute truth.
Yes I know there are converters and upscalers in all shapes, sizes and prices but I am interested in discovering the capabilities of the PS2.

This photo sucks because CRTs have to be seen in person and my smartphone takes sh***y photos, but I'm sharing it anyway:

Spoiler: Other Images

 

[Berion]

Instead of looking(looked) for CRT just buy upscaler.

Anyway, screenshot from CRT showing actual image displayed is not possible no matter what You will use. It is possible only by human eyes.

 

[Peppe90]

Instead of looking(looked) for CRT just buy upscaler.

Btw the ability to correctly see any resolution is a good thing. Also to keep that resolution in motion is another good thing, plus color precision, vividness, naturalness and a black/contrast you cannot even dream of on a lcd.

 

[ragen-fio]

Instead of looking(looked) for CRT just buy upscaler.

Anyway, screenshot from CRT showing actual image displayed is not possible no matter what You will use. It is possible only by human eyes.

Thanks for the reply really appreciated , but as I said I don't like the image quality of the old consoles on LCDs, so as interesting as upscalers are - I also have a GBS-Control built a few years ago but hardly used - I prefer CRTs and native resolutions. If I have to spend to increase the resolution, apply filters, deinterlace etc for an LCD it is better to use an emulator that has many more features and is free.

I am a CRT orthodox.

 

[Berion]

@Peppe90 CRT provides native resolution but with delicate blur. LCD/PDP/OLED provide high resolution and scalling lower to its native, but if upscaleed it is super sharp and crisp. CRT covering full color spectrum range while newer technology doesn't, especially LCD TN. Everything have its cost. ^^

 

[mimi]

Most people haven't seen how smooth CRTs are. Second thing to CRT is a plasma TV.

1280x1024 is 5:4, ps2 is 480i - 4:3.

find proper 4:3 monitor if you want as perfect geometry as possible.

 

[ragen-fio]

Most people haven't seen how smooth CRTs are.

Agree.

1280x1024 is 5:4, ps2 is 480i - 4:3.

find proper 4:3 monitor if you want as perfect geometry as possible.

Thanks for the reply and for the advice , I use that resolution because it seems to me the one that gives the least problems with image centering, probably, as I said in the first post, trying various resolutions could increase compatibility with other games but I'm fiddling with the VGA out of curiosity as I'm not going to use it all the time so I'm not digging into it. But the games that are compatible are simply wonderful and it annoys me that Sony didn't put VGA video output as an available option like the Dreamcast, many games would have benefited from it like those that support progressive scan which I never could at the time use because I was using the PS2 on a normal CRT TV with SCART and finding a consumer CRT that supported 480p was impossible, at least in Italy, but PC monitors were everywhere.

 

[mimi]

Agree.



Thanks for the reply and for the advice , I use that resolution because it seems to me the one that gives the least problems with image centering, probably, as I said in the first post, trying various resolutions could increase compatibility with other games but I'm fiddling with the VGA out of curiosity as I'm not going to use it all the time so I'm not digging into it. But the games that are compatible are simply wonderful and it annoys me that Sony didn't put VGA video output as an available option like the Dreamcast, many games would have benefited from it like those that support progressive scan which I never could at the time use because I was using the PS2 on a normal CRT TV with SCART and finding a consumer CRT that supported 480p was impossible, at least in Italy, but PC monitors were everywhere.

PC monitors cover lower than 480p, problem is that ps2 mainly outputs 480i which is not supported by 31khz monitors.

But you must find 4:3 monitor.

 

[ragen-fio]

PC monitors cover lower than 480p, problem is that ps2 mainly outputs 480i which is not supported by 31khz monitors.

But you must find 4:3 monitor.

Yes but I'm using GSM so there is no problem with interlaced games. I think with some games it's more of an issue with the output resolution or the VGA mode itself.

 

[Peppe90]

I never could at the time use because I was using the PS2 on a normal CRT TV with SCART and finding a consumer CRT that supported 480p was impossible, at least in Italy, but PC monitors were everywhere.

There weren't many but there were some. I still have the Philips HD one (it supports up to 720p and 1080i from component and HDMI inputs).

@Peppe90 CRT provides native resolution but with delicate blur. LCD/PDP/OLED provide high resolution and scalling lower to its native, but if upscaleed it is super sharp and crisp. CRT covering full color spectrum range while newer technology doesn't, especially LCD TN. Everything have its cost. ^^

Yes, LCD TN aren't meant for quality. Btw even top IPS, as also Plasmas and Oled cannot match the color precision of a crt. You can go up to 16-bit per color at least, with any (old) CRT monitor, color shades are virtually infinite on them, analog precision, no need of any dithering.

Also about the blur you said, it depends on the Tv/monitor quality, how it is adjusted and the resolution you set it to. They can be as crisp as a fixed matrix tv. Actually they can appear even more detailed than a correspondent lcd (same native res.) due to the much higher contrast.
I have a 28" Mivar CRT my parents bought it in 2001, I discovered later that these TVs are highly sought after 'cause they're like the high quality screens they used for arcade coin-ops. You should see this with a console connected through scart-rgb how crisp it is.

Obviously a HD LCD will show more detail at high resolutions (as long as the picture is still...) compared to a SD CRT.

But there are also monitors like this (from year 2000):

DF Direct! Modern Games Look Amazing On CRT Monitors... Yes, Better than LCD! - YouTube
DF Direct: CRT Displays - Was LCD A Big Mistake For Gaming? - YouTube
PlayStation 5 + Xbox Series X Tested on CRT: Is Image Quality Really Better Than Any Modern Screen? - YouTube

 

[ragen-fio]

There weren't many but there were some. I still have the Philips HD one (it supports up to 720p and 1080i from component and HDMI inputs).

I remember when some of those TVs came out if I'm not mistaken I saw them in 2010/2011 in some magazines, but at the time I had already abandoned consoles and had been playing with the PC for years, so they never interested me and they cost too much anyway.

I have a 28" Mivar CRT my parents bought it in 2001, I discovered later that these TVs are highly sought after 'cause they're like the high quality screens they used for arcade coin-ops. You should see this with a console connected through scart-rgb how crisp it is.

I have a 17" Mivar inherited from my grandmother that I use with the PS2 in RGB and when I opened it to fix it I discovered that the tube (from Philips) is the same used in many videopoker machines, and man the image is really crisp with beautiful colors.

p.s. Ma sei italiano anche tu?

 

[Peppe90]

I remember when some of those TVs came out if I'm not mistaken I saw them in 2010/2011 in some magazines, but at the time I had already abandoned consoles and had been playing with the PC for years, so they never interested me and they cost too much anyway.

It is the Philips 32PW9551/12. The cost actually was quite low 'cause when it was in production (2006/07) the market was pushing LCDs (and Plasmas but mostly LCDs...). It was 4/500€ (Don't remember precisely, I bought it second hand for 250€ some years after).
Useless to say it was better than any thousands € LCD.
A couple years ago, we made a comparison with a friend between this HD-CRT and his 4k HDR LG Oled, using Uncharted and he said the picture was more realistic on the CRT. Much better colors and especially when in motion there was no comparison.

I have a 17" Mivar inherited from my grandmother that I use with the PS2 in RGB and when I opened it to fix it I discovered that the tube (from Philips) is the same used in many videopoker machines, and man the image is really crisp with beautiful colors.

My is a 28S4 Stereo (28"). It's a "pure RGB" Tv, with no filter whatsoever (you have to be careful when feeding some calibration patterns to it, since it doesn't have any flicker filter, ABL/brightness-saturation limiter, you can make stains to appear...).
It has a very simple electronic, when displaying a RGB signal, the source directly drives the cathode ray (you cannot even adjust the color saturation), when you enter an input with a game it gives the impression that the TV react slightly before you pressed the button XD

p.s. Ma sei italiano anche tu?

E non si capisce dal nick?

 

[ragen-fio]

My is a 28S4 Stereo (28"). It's a "pure RGB" Tv, with no filter whatsoever (you have to be careful when feeding some calibration patterns to it, since it doesn't have any flicker filter, ABL/brightness-saturation limiter, you can make stains to appear...).
It has a very simple electronic, when displaying a RGB signal, the source directly drives the cathode ray (you cannot even adjust the color saturation), when you enter an input with a game it gives the impression that the TV react slightly before you pressed the button XD

We had a couple of those 28S4s at home one was replaced after a few years with a 32" LG LCD, the other was given away... Now I have 3, one 17" and two 14" and yes the Mivar are famous for having very minimal electronics compared to other brands, they have a tube some component to drive it and a power supply. It's a pleasure to work on them.

E non si capisce dal nick?

Più che altro mi è stato chiaro quando hai parlato del Mivar appunto, perché non sarebbe la prima volta che vedo un nick italiano su qualche forum ma la persona non è italiana se non di origini.

 

[ragen-fio]

Ciao! I hope I'm not going against the rules of the forum but I've updated the first post with some pictures that I made some time ago of Black that looks simply fabulous. I have pictures of other games and maybe will upload them in the future.

In order not to load the site and the thread too much, I uploaded them on Google and put them under a spoiler.

 

[pianohombre]

I read that using component cables will upscale the image from the default audio-visual cables so I was going to do that when I get a chance.

 

[Peppe90]

I read that using component cables will upscale the image from the default audio-visual cables so I was going to do that when I get a chance.

It won't up-scale. But you'll be able to set progressive/HD resolutions on games that have that option (or using GSM, with variable results depending on the game).

Component is also a much better compression than composite (it approaches the RGB signal), overally better also than S-Video.
So even in SD resolutions you'll get a better picture quality than using the composite crap.

 

[ragen-fio]

Added a video that I recorded a year and a half ago of Gran Turismo 4 always in VGA mode on the usual Nokia monitor.
The video is nothing special because I recorded it with a cheap smartphone and it doesn't reflect the true image quality, but Gran Turismo 4 is simply beautiful in VGA.

 

[DanielRemains]

Have you ever tried a PS2 to HDMI adapter? I bought the one that's the complete wire and a USB cable that you connect just beside your HDMI inlet on your TV, not the black box type.
I find the image quality a little better but I'm not really into that.

 

[ragen-fio]

A small update to this thread.

I recently recovered a couple of LG CRT monitors because the FBT of the Nokia I was using until a few months ago decided to kill itself and the replacement is not easy to find...
So I took the opportunity to test other games also using the patches for progressive scan/480p etc. created by a person called Felixthecat1970, who I discovered is a user here too, and the more I test and find compatible ones the more I am convinced that not allowing the use of a "VGA mode" also for games (maybe not all and only on some would have been appreciated anyway) is a huge missed opportunity.
I would like to share a video I made of Burnout Dominator patched and in person it is incredible. I also tested Soul Calibur II and III and they are simply breathtaking and I think that anyone who has the opportunity should try them on a CRT monitor.

The PS2 I'm using is usually connected to a 17" CRT TV (the tube is a Philips that was also used in some videopoker machines and it's pretty nice and colorful) with a custom handmade RGB SCART cable with C-Sync, so I have a good "yardstick" to compare it to and I can say that playing on a CRT monitor is at least two steps forward in terms of image quality and clarity compared to the TV and i repeat that it's a real shame that this opportunity was missed.

Moved the video on the first message.

 

[ragen-fio]

I hope the moderators are ok with me adding videos every now and then so I can have a common thread on the topic. Yes the videos aren't that great but I'm happy to share this experience.

Added to the first message Marvel vs Capcom 2 with Full Frame Mode patch also made by Felixthecat1970.