reflexion about IRD after a long practice

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solomonbyte

solomonbyte

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68 65 6C 6C 6F

== 1st of all this is not a debate launching, those who think ird are useless are invited to not respond to keep the place as clear as possible ==

i got question for all the people with IRD manipulation ( understanding lexical field of " quantity, statistic/experience"

is there a known list of BAD ird files on the internet ? (or game list with problematic dumping ; i am aware of MGS4 and toc checks, main reason i don't waste time to test em all, i make 100% for all game update included, period. )

because i have over time encountered those cases :

1) 100% so far so good ( fortunately )

2) NO IRD file available ( mainly for extra rare BLJS BLJM or recent EU/US ones after 2016 release )

3) valid IRD content for specified disk+app version but found other version that match for all files
except boot.bin + param.fso +update file, opening eboot & param shows no modified bytes and confirming fw/update mismatch version so making non ird iso is 100% working : ex :
(the amazing spiderman 2 BLUS41044)
(spiderman edge of time BLUS30760)
(top gun hard lock BLUS30858)
(Syndicate - BLUS-30804)

3.5) johnnyb ird vault do not contain all ird and it happened to me some games would mismatch and other vault found in other locations with many versions of specific IRD would provide a 100%

4) game with many sources but having same mismatch on one or specific files.
can mainly be rectified with psn DL & merge technic, or other sources. but my 1st concern is for exemple
for game like (WRC 5 FIA World Rally Championship BLUS31549) one file remain crc mismatch, the config.cfg, wrong size, and also getting same ird mismatch with the psn version.
considering the psn as 100% trust source, my 1st question is " is my psn statement correct ? "

i also observed early FW games ( below 2.5 in general ) having only mismatch with one single file bug generally a nice size one, like (transformer : the game BLUS300047 ) TRANS.DAT is 2.2gb, game working for what i tested 1st level, but the file mismatch in CRC but size is matching.


same issue with (The Lord of the Ring Aragorn -BLES-00998) the file vo_eng.fig is matching size ~800mb but not crc. not tested tho.

i focused on list could finalize until now.


--------

with time i managed to rebuild a considerable amount of disks, but i am fighting with a small amount of title that have no longer availability on the web, making it hard to compare files & crc and for about 10 of them, i have this feeling that maybe in the begin of the ripping era , systems were unstable or unable to dump properly long file, but i know that statistically my statement is wrong, otherwise massive amount of game would not be 100% match. i dunno. really.

i would like to understand.

sorry for bad grammar ENG is not my 1st language.

best regards.
 
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Yeah, you are right, there are many invalid IRD files distributed as valid, in some way we could say the people that uploaded them was "infecting" the databases, and since that point is very hard to identify them, so the IRD databases cant be cleaned up
This people uploading fake IRD files damaged the IRD dabatases very hardly

A part of the culprit is a consequence of how the reporting procedures where implemented... lets say... if you design something with a flaw you can be sure there is going to be a human exploiting it, either on purpose or without noticing the damage they are doing
Since that point your design is destroyed, specially in cases like this ones when the goal is to be accurate and failproof
This is my personal oppinion, as you can see im angry about it, there are positive things though because the effort and work of the good people has not been destroyed completly, is just now we need to discriminate which IRD are legit and which ones are a piece of shit sticked on the tip of a pole
 
74 68 61 6E 78 20 66 6F 72 20 79 6F 75 72 20 72 65 73 70 6F 6E 73 65 73 20 3A 29

i offer my help to rebuild a known valid database if this is accepted in this forum.
1st in an updated .rar folder with name + game ID, then your call to manage it as you want

i do not code, but personally i would loooove to have an .exe where i would drag and drop a folder/iso to perform what iso rebuilder does in way much simpler form, without rigid menu clic selection, with a nice file name recognition by id-title to auto match an internal updatable ird database.
in fact, drop the dump on the window, wait the magic, read result " 100% or uncomplete " and 1 button for rebuild the image in plain mode full 1:1 for burning -or standard to delete padding - ( lego games, mostly. )

i can actually perform launch tests of eboot on pure untouched cfw ( 4.85 overflow CEX ) via ps3 net server on a win10 machine, precise the content of file structure of disks, for exactly at this time 670 US/EU titles. getting issue with 5-10 of them.

the remaining titles to cover are rarely famous good ones , all the important ones are already under my hand. i don't have particular limit to my preservation project as far i can collect em . i should be around 900-1000 for christmas. i got a low DSL 7MB, it takes time.

i focus EU titles when possible for multi 5+ but i had to cheat for a fair amount of title to be in BLUS CLUS because of lack of valid files from the psn itself and internet 2011 era... i have to dive deep to recover some title this is not easy task.

anyway, IRD wise, if you ( psx place as a whole ) are interested MP me a way to send you a .xml file with content & statut to start with.

community providing confirmations of played title with specific md5 would help to debunk bad ird, just as others would find a nice new way to perform dump checks.

with time i learned from my experience that opening a specific title that got IRD mismatch and get same bad dump from multiple known sources until i find one matching, lost middle of nowhere, the 1 vs all is a winner. this can looks stupid sentence, but checking integrity without original is mainly statistical affair. the biggest issue is not that much the ird, but the dumps we grab themselves. internet is a plague for not nuking bad release and bouncing link from page to page, countless link grabber than put ads links in front to earn money. with time i have reached good success rate

###############################
let's be clear, i do not encourage anyone in piracy, i am born in era of physical. seeing all this programmed obsolescence and DLC business model, annualized dematerialized version, makes me puke. it is a shame to sell digital copy of a game that give access to an online mode that is time limited, when they decide to force you to buy new version, they cut the access of the online of the game. basically, a battlefield game is a game that you never possess, you rent it the lifetime of the product until they close servers. by this exact opposite principle, i decided to get a copy of all what i can grab. frankly i do not even play 1% of them. because i do not trust at all this system and i am a very old school minded man : if i do not possess it i do not own it. the day they close steam, some gonna just cry. so as long as i can manage data storage, i perform a collect to preserve from deletion / acces , and just as abandonware general rule applies of 2 generations and they won't make anything retrocompatible anylonger in this business, in couple of months all this will be tolerated, and in 1 year legitimated by age statut just like ps2 full set available to known places for couple of years now. editors don't give a F%$# and more than half of them gone bankrupt or simply closed.

ps4 & forward won't be possible because of title size and state of the hacking scene, but all until ps3 is doable, and ps4 is not the best generation anyway. all the magic was ps1 ps2 ps3. doing RERERE version with hd texture is meh.. to me, except when capcom redo the whole game, then, i admit, it is great, especially for old farts that know the game they played 25 years ago.
jeez 25 years ago. :cower:.
###############################

all i offer here, is to rebuild a smaller but 100 % accurate IRD database. no less, no more. it is my contribution to this site after all i learned to do with a ps3.

your call.


regards.
 
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solomonbyte said:
74 68 61 6E 78 20 66 6F 72 20 79 6F 75 72 20 72 65 73 70 6F 6E 73 65 73 20 3A 29

i offer my help to rebuild a known valid database if this is accepted in this forum.
1st in an updated .rar folder with name + game ID, then your call to manage it as you want

i do not code, but personally i would loooove to have an .exe where i would drag and drop a folder/iso to perform what iso rebuilder does in way much simpler form, without rigid menu clic selection, with a nice file name recognition by id-title to auto match an internal updatable ird database.
in fact, drop the dump on the window, wait the magic, read result " 100% or uncomplete " and 1 button for rebuild the image in plain mode full 1:1 for burning -or standard to delete padding - ( lego games, mostly. )

i can actually perform launch tests of eboot on pure untouched cfw ( 4.85 overflow CEX ) via ps3 net server on a win10 machine, precise the content of file structure of disks, for exactly at this time 670 US/EU titles. getting issue with 5-10 of them.

the remaining titles to cover are rarely famous good ones , all the important ones are already under my hand. i don't have particular limit to my preservation project as far i can collect em . i should be around 900-1000 for christmas. i got a low DSL 7MB, it takes time.

i focus EU titles when possible for multi 5+ but i had to cheat for a fair amount of title to be in BLUS CLUS because of lack of valid files from the psn itself and internet 2011 era... i have to dive deep to recover some title this is not easy task.

anyway, IRD wise, if you ( psx place as a whole ) are interested MP me a way to send you a .xml file with content & statut to start with.

community providing confirmations of played title with specific md5 would help to debunk bad ird, just as others would find a nice new way to perform dump checks.

with time i learned from my experience that opening a specific title that got IRD mismatch and open same bad dump from multiple sources until i find one matching, then, the 1 vs all is a winner. internet is a plague for not nuking bad release and bouncing link from page to page, countless link grabber than put ads links in front to earn money. with time i have reached good success rate

###############################
let's be clear, i do not encourage anyone in piracy, i am born in era of physical. seeing all this programmed obsolescence and DLC business model, annualized dematerialized version, makes me puke. it is a shame to sell digital copy of a game that give access to an online mode that is time limited, when they decide to force you to buy new version, they cut the access of the online of the game. basically, a battlefield game is a game that you never possess, you rent it the lifetime of the product until they close servers. by this exact opposite principle, i decided to get a copy of all what i can grab. frankly i do not even play 1% of them. because i do not trust at all this system and i am a very old school minded man : if i do not possess it i do not own it. the day they close steam, some gonna just cry. so as long as i can manage data storage, i perform a collect to preserve from deletion / acces , and just as abandonware general rule applies of 2 generations and they won't make anything retrocompatible anylonger in this business, in couple of months all this will be tolerated, and in 1 year legitimated by age statut just like ps2 full set available to known places for couple of years now. editors don't give a F%$# and more than half of them gone bankrupt or simply closed.

ps4 & forward won't be possible because of title size and state of the hacking scene, but all until ps3 is doable, and ps4 is not the best generation anyway. all the magic was ps1 ps2 ps3. doing RERERE version with hd texture is meh.. to me, except when capcom redo the whole game, then, i admit, it is great, especially for old farts that know the game they played 25 years ago.
jeez 25 years ago. :cower:.
###############################

all i offer here, is to rebuild a smaller but 100 % accurate IRD database. no less, no more. it is my contribution to this site after all i learned to do with a ps3.

your call.


regards.
Click to expand...
I never got a single invalid IRD from jonnysp.bplaced.net. I used it a lot, and dumped all my discs on PC using that. Even MGS4 worked and dumped like a charm. But I have only 42 discs, maybe I was lucky. But I agree with you, we should separate the invalid IRDs, but how? How to determine if an IRD is valid or not if the majority doesn't care about it and, we can't afford all discs to check one by one? If there is a software to allow people to dump their discs and automate the upload process of the IRD to an online database, maybe it will be possible.
 
We dont support piracy, is the number 1 rule of the Site/Forum Rules & Guidelines

All this IRD stuff can be used for legal reasons (not related with piracy), when we made a backup from a real optical disc could happen several problems, an IRD check can detect them:
-disc scratched or dirty
-laser with reading problems
-hdd with bad sectors or filesystem (where the backuped files are created)
-when you move the game files to a different USB hdd... that other hdd could have problems too
-if you use FTP to move the files to PC the files can be corrupted by network problems
-etc...

-----------
At this point one of the few ways i see to create a legit IRD database would be by convincing johnnyb to implement some kind of "community ratio" to allow the users to take down the fake IRD with his votes
Im telling this because i like his project, personally i think his web is the legacy successor of the original IRD database mantained by the 3K3Y ODE manufacturers
That original IRD database had the same problems btw... and johnnyb just inherited them... and when more people continued uploading fake IRD the percentage of fake IRD's in the databased increased even more
So... in some way is the same IRD database and we have the same problem since begining

There is another way though... but i dont want to talk about it in public yet because doesnt depends on me, are mostly some brainstormings, im not sure if your IRD collection could come in handy but i will keep it im mind

One thing is clear, the IRD database cant be distributed together with programs because his size is going to be excesive, there are some IRD files up to 15mb... if you want to store IRD for all the regions of that game is going to be like 45mb only for 1 game... and thats considering the game was published only 3 times (only 3 different discs), but this is not frequent though
 
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UYScuti said:
If there is a software to allow people to dump their discs and automate the upload process of the IRD to an online database, maybe it will be possible.
Click to expand...
And that software only allowing to create IRD files from a real pressed PS3 BD disc
Something like that would be close to failproof... not completly because there could be other rare problems at the time the IRD file is generated
But lets say... we could be confident that around 99% of the IRD files generated by a software like that are going to be valid
 
A method would be that when the disc is being ripped on the computer, the BLXX would be read, then the disc contents, via crc or md5, or whatever being verified, and then uploaded to the server with last octet of ip address.
At the point of the server recieving a certain number of validations from enough different ip addresses, the ird could be then considered and marked as "community validated", at which point there could be a secondary "Double Validated" section could be reserved for ones that not only were "community validated" but also personally validated by someone reputable.

This would be part of the ripping application, or plugin to this application, and would be done notifying the user that it is verifying, and confirming validation of the new ird to the database, possibly with a confirmation to upload.... etc... :)

Just a thought...
 
There is a way to minimize the amount of data sent to the database, remember what i mentioned before, there are some IRD files up to 15mb size, the IRD file only needs to be stored in the database 1 time, but if you have multiple users sending the same IRD multiple times, 15mb each (and a web process comparing them) you are losing bandwidth and processing power

What we need is an unique identifyer of the IRD file, lets say i have a IRD file named BLES12345.ird (size 1mb). It contains lot of MD5 hashes for all the game files, but we can calculate the MD5 of the BLES12345.ird file and use it as an identifyer for that unique IRD file
Is a bit like the concept of the lord of the rings "an unique ring to control all the others", \o/... you can check an unlimited amount of MD5's just by checking a single MD5

This way we send the IRD identifyer (his MD5) to the database, and there are 2 posible results:
Case 1) The IRD is valid and the software displays the message "your IRD check was successful"
Case 2) The IRD doesnt exists in the database, so the IRD file is sent to the database (for further actions)

The nice thing is in case 1) the software is giving the "valid" result by sending (or requesting) only a few bytes to the database, i think is the most efficient way to identify IRD files and comparing them
Actually, the IRD files hosted in jonnysp database have some kind of hash in the filename. It looks like a hash because his lenght but im not sure what is it, as example this IRD file:
http://jonnysp.bplaced.net/ird/BCAS20001-CA107E13820801F29488EBEB7D82A2C4.ird
Someone knows what means the CA107E13820801F29488EBEB7D82A2C4 of the url ?
 
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sandungas said:
There is a way to minimize the amount of data sent to the database, remember what i mentioned before, there are some IRD files up to 15mb size, the IRD file only needs to be stored in the database 1 time, but if you have multiple users sending the same IRD multiple times, 15mb each (and a web process comparing them) you are losing bandwidth and processing power

What we need is an unique identifyer of the IRD file, lets say i have a IRD file named BLES12345.ird (size 1mb). It contains lot of MD5 hashes for all the game files, but we can calculate the MD5 of the BLES12345.ird file and use it as an identifyer for that unique IRD file
Is a bit like the concept of the lord of the rings "an unique ring to control all the others", \o/... you can check an unlimited amount of MD5's just by checking a single MD5

This way we send the IRD identifyer (his MD5) to the database, and there are 2 posible results:
Case 1) The IRD is valid and the software displays the message "your IRD check was successful"
Case 2) The IRD doesnt exists in the database, so the IRD file is sent to the database (for further actions)

The nice thing is in case 1) the software is giving the "valid" result by sending (or requesting) only a few bytes to the database, i think is the most efficient way to identify IRD files and comparing them
Actually, the IRD files hosted in jonnysp database have some kind of hash in the filename. It looks like a hash because his lenght but im not sure what is it, as example this IRD file:
http://jonnysp.bplaced.net/ird/BCAS20001-CA107E13820801F29488EBEB7D82A2C4.ird
Someone knows what means the CA107E13820801F29488EBEB7D82A2C4 of the url ?
Click to expand...

Clever idea! Definitely a little more refined than how I was saying to implement it. All for not wasting time/resources. :)

I was just more focused on the validation part of it is all... lol :)
 
i can be wrong, but to me there is not need to implement any piece of software to refine the database.

you have pinned the main idea, by ratio, my technic is same, it is statistics. i have been clear for my case and the amount of dumps and how i get them, this is not the concern, this is just to underline the fact that even without physical disk, manipulating hundreds of ISO files give a certain feeling about what is pretty evident.


- all green except param.fso : ticked case "remote play for vita", and or music in xmb background
oBogzuFCQ1KD.png





- all but param.fso AND eboot.bin, at lower fw version : homebrew auto patch. ( you taught it to me yesterday )
vwlPzjdGxILu.png





- all green but parts of the files are red : not a dump, it is a rip. deleted update, languages, demos/extra/video with modded param
k88nASKsK60J.png


and to finish,
- all green but part of core data such levels, textures, in red : shitty dump, no need to provide iso rebuilder picture, all comments such " game crash bla bla" in the download section of the source, the testing work has already been done, i just have to read the screen.
it confirms the validity of the ird.


all those classic cases indicate good ird file. i am confident about the amount of rebuild i have performed, a simple confirmation of a single legit disk owner is enought to definitivly validate the ird from 99% to 100%

i can provide the 1st pass of validity with an excel file as i said for 650 titles atm.
PS: UYScuti, u gave me luck man, i finally found a 3.66 for spiderman edge of time :p

i just have not sorted the ird to keep them, i use vaults, so i may take 2 weeks to rescan all isos to pick the irds, getting their MD5 and add them to my excel file. as it would also serve myself as an overall check.

this will provide the community something to make a compare, lighter than a 0.1mb file and covering wide majority of cases.
then copying the md5 & going to your idea to make a small db of that and rebuild a small scanner/checker ( with drag & drop for god sake lol )

the non used/pointless title + bad online dump are de facto eliminated from the equation, all what i cannot achieve as a 1:1 rebuild is set aside, everyone is winning excepted the space of my drives :blackeye:

i can understand why some people would be against validating by using exotic sources, but it is just a point of view about considering statistics.
 
the MD5 of the IRD files will be available within 2-3 days.
i passed my afternoon on cascade windows, since it is not editing but just copy paste task it is much faster than expected.

i think i will make public google sheet.
 
If you only want an IRD to rebuild an ISO, it's ok, but an IRD is much more than this. The IRD file also have D1, D2 and PIC inside it, which are used to decrypt and dump the disc on PC. It's impossible to assure the IRD is valid only based if rebuild a decrypted ISO is possible.
 
""" There is no PIC/D1/D2 data in the original disc. You can use a bluray drive on a PC to verify that. That information is added by 3k3y and is only useful for them when they emulate the drive entirely with keys dumped in CFW. We have also added that information to genps3iso v2.3 when it generates ISO from an IRD and it is used since MCU 1.8 to fake the PIC data. That information is not in any file so it cannot be added if you generate an iso without IRD. ""

""The PIC/D1/D2 on the disc itself is not on any sector. That data is part of the authentication of the disc but the data does not appear anywhere on the actual sectors. The iso contains that data because we don't want to have a separate file from the iso to carry that information. ""

magneto, ODE team, 2009 ( source maxconsole forum )

i won't pretend to be a pro, honestly, i didn't try to understand everything on the process of dumping discs.
as long the files are valids, nothing missing, the game runs fine...:quartet:
my gift to the forum is just the willing to give a good amount of MD5 of IRD files that are recognized as valid to make file check for the people to play and entertain. that's all.
 
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solomonbyte said:
""" There is no PIC/D1/D2 data in the original disc. You can use a bluray drive on a PC to verify that. That information is added by 3k3y and is only useful for them when they emulate the drive entirely with keys dumped in CFW. We have also added that information to genps3iso v2.3 when it generates ISO from an IRD and it is used since MCU 1.8 to fake the PIC data. That information is not in any file so it cannot be added if you generate an iso without IRD. ""

magneto, ODE team, 2009 ( source maxconsole forum )

i won't pretend to be a pro, honestly, i didn't try to understand everything on the process of dumping discs.
as long the files are valids, nothing missing, the game runs fine, i don't really care about the rest.
my gift to the forum is just the willing to give a good amount of MD5 of IRD files that are recognized as valid to make file check for the people to play and entertain. that's all.
Click to expand...
If you use IsoTools from 3k3y to decrypt your dumped image, you will need a valid IRD with D1, D2 and PIC. And why someone needs an IRD if it's not able to decrypt the original dumped image? Only to rebuild an ISO? If the IRD is not really valid, why it should be considered?
 
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and that's where the explanation goes to and end, because, i don't dump the disks, i rebuild the iso.
the decrypting process is already done. :quartet:
 
solomonbyte said:
and that's where the explanation goes to and end, because, i don't dump the disks, i rebuild the iso.
the decrypting process is already done. :quartet:
Click to expand...
So you don't need to do the "database". If the IRD is not really valid, there's no need to do it.
 
Or anarchist, anyway... the forum follows some rules and you ignored them, this thread was too much "contaminated" with piracy, i mean... the talks about IRD was legit, but the mentions to piracy was not
The thread had a bad start, and at this point i cant see how to clean it up, so thread closed

If someone wants to talk about IRD stuff please open another thread
 
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