PS3 Thumbs.db files in game disc, mistake or copy protection?

A

AlexRhine

Member
If you look at the ird of "Splinter Cell Trilogy", you can see that there are 5 different Thumbs.db files included in the disc:

PS3_GAME\USRDIR\Data_SCCT\System\Resources\deu\Thumbs.db
PS3_GAME\USRDIR\Data_SCCT\System\Resources\esp\Thumbs.db
PS3_GAME\USRDIR\Data_SCCT\System\Resources\fra\Thumbs.db
PS3_GAME\USRDIR\Data_SCCT\System\Resources\int\Thumbs.db
PS3_GAME\USRDIR\Data_SCCT\System\Resources\Thumbs.db

Each one is apparently 3 sectors long.

Now, for those of you not familiar with Thumbs.db files, they are Windows system files which hold an image for windows to show as a thumbnail for a folder. They are also considered system files, so they are typically hidden by default in the OS when looking at folders.

Now, I think these files are hidden by default even when using command line tools to list files in a directory (like ls, it needs an additional parameter to be able to show them). So, it is likely that these files will be ignored if you build an ISO from a folder dump in Windows (I can't be sure, since I don't have a Windows machine with me to test makeps3iso, which uses dirent.h to list files in directories. Does dirent.h ignore system files in Windows?).

So, my question is, do you think that these files were simply accidentally included in the disc when building the disc image from a Windows machine (which would be somewhat funny), or do you think this is some sort of copy protection in part of the developers to prevent backup copies from having the file? Or maybe the game uses those files to display some thumbnail in game?

Edit: Viewing the files of the ird from jonnysp's website doesn't work; the number of files in this particular game is massive (I wouldn't be surprised if it has the largest header of any ps3 game). You can look at the files with Zar's ird_tools.
 
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Coro said:
https://superuser.com/questions/330...for-how-can-i-prevent-them-from-being-created

read the first reply to see how to turn off creation of these files.
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You know, I never considered the possibility of these files being overwritten. That would make a game dump be unverifiable by Redump (and perhaps the game itself detects this). Copy protection perhaps?

In any case, these files are included in the disc itself, so it would probably be preferable for them to be included in an ISO of the game. This is only a problem with JB-Folder game dumps that are connected to a Windows machine; building an ISO directly from the PS3 or on a *nix machine shouldn't have a problem with these files.

Edit: IRD verification would also be affected if these Thumbs.db files are ignored and/or written over (and I guess they could mess up someone's dump if they are by any chance created on a folder of another game). Man, Windows' weird file handling strikes again.
 
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Keep in mind that the IRD format was created by the 3K3Y company, and to create them it was needed an special circuit board (dont remember the name) to connect a PS3 drive to the SATA port of a standard PC, all the IRD files generated by using that board was legit, 3K3Y had a online IRD database where people was able to upload them (after registering with an account)
At that point everything was working in a failproof way and the IRD's of the database was 100% accurate

But... some time later appeared a tool (i never knew how they was doing it at that time) that allowed to generate the IRD files in PC using as source the files of a PS3 game in "JB format" (folder and files)... dumped by multiman/iris and moved from the PS3 to PC
Thats when the invalid IRD files started appearing, and "contaminated" the original 3K3Y database (later inherited by jonnysp's database)

The IRD from the splinter cell trilogy you are mentioning @AlexRhine seems to be a good example of this, that "windows thumbnails" was created when someone opened the directory in windows while the game was in "JB format" (folders and files), because in that directories probably there is a ICON0.PNG (for the savegame) or other image formats

The only other alternative posible is if that thumb.db files was really in the "master" disc... but this kind of mistake would be a bit hilarious
 
  • If thumbs.db are real can be leftover by dev team.
  • If thumbs.db are real can be part of copy protection (because tools ignoring them as they are thumbnails for Explorer and by default turned on, on all Windows).
  • If thumbs.db aren't real can be part of copy protection (the same as above and files are real game resources intentionally named that way to makes pirates and our life harder).
  • IRD needs replacement, it is cancer format (i.e should be simple compressed text format with disc key, lba order and checksums). :P
 
Berion said:
IRD needs replacement, it is cancer format (i.e should be simple compressed text format with disc key, lba order and checksums). :P
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I personally think the ird format is amazing as it is right now. It contains the original header and footer, so you can rebuild a JB folder into a 1:1 original disc copy ( Redump) as long as you have the encryption key. The only problem I see is verifiability, which should hopefully improve with Zar's ird database.

sandungas said:
The IRD from the splinter cell trilogy you are mentioning @AlexRhine seems to be a good example of this, that "windows thumbnails" was created when someone opened the directory in windows while the game was in "JB format"
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What's odd is that I got the ird from that site where I got the valid TLOU ird. As I explained in that other thread, this ird should be valid as it has been "verified by Redump". There's always the possibility that it is invalid though.

Berion said:
If thumbs.db are real can be part of copy protection (because tools ignoring them as they are thumbnails for Explorer and by default turned on, on all Windows).
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We could check the eboot of the game to see if these files are ever looked for. @Zar, if you somehow get a copy of the eboot, do you think you could take a look at it with ghidra?
 
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DonKeballs said:
Yeah sure. It'll take a while to ftp the files over. Does it specifically have to be ManaGunZ or would IRISMAN suffice?
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It has to be MGZ, since it uses the original header and footer of the disc (Irisman just uses makeps3iso). Also, could you share the ird you get after dumping your game? That way, we can see if these Thumbs.db files are really a part of the disc or not.
 
DonKeballs said:
Ok. I'll do it using MGZ. Do you use MGZ to create the ird or do I copy it back to the pc and use ps3-iso-rebuilder?
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The ird will be automatically generated by MGZ when you dump a decrypted ISO, in the same directory as the ISO. It should also be uploaded to Zar's server.

(Make sure you're using MGZ v1.39 or higher)
 
AlexRhine said:
I personally think the ird format is amazing as it is right now. It contains the original header and footer, so you can rebuild a JB folder into a 1:1 original disc copy ( Redump) as long as you have the encryption key. The only problem I see is verifiability, which should hopefully improve with Zar's ird database.
Click to expand...

You cannot, as 1:1 disc image can be made on PS3 only, none application doing it and none of group has designed format to keeps complete image. There is hidden area, none accessible outside PS3 ODD (it's before accessible LBA 0). On top of that if any game developer put game data outside TOC table, it will not be copied and cannot be rebuild that way (like in PS2 times i.e in case of FF12; but probably no one did it).

IRD is a mess. Look at wiki on specification.
 
Berion said:
You cannot, as 1:1 disc image can be made on PS3 only, none application doing it and none of group has designed format to keeps complete image. There is hidden area, none accessible outside PS3 ODD (it's before accessible LBA 0). On top of that if any game developer put game data outside TOC table, it will not be copied and cannot be rebuild that way (like in PS2 times i.e in case of FF12; but probably no one did it).

IRD is a mess. Look at wiki on specification.
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I know the ird structure. I've looked at it a number of times for research. I still think all the info that is stored in an ird is quite useful.

As for 1:1 images of discs, I don't think there is a PS3 program which dumps an ISO with the hidden sectors. MGZ and multiMAN encrypted ISOs (the ones submitted to Redump) are the ones closest to a 1:1 image. With an ird and encryption key, it is possible to go from a JB Folder to a Redump ISO (though I can't say with complete certainty that it is possible for all games, maybe in some cases the padding added for encrypted sections isn't all null bytes).

The blank space after the data section of the ISO is accounted for by using the footer that's included in the ird.

I do think it would be useful to have a format less complicated than ird files, like a fake ird which can be generated from any ISO. Perhaps a gz compressed text file with checksums might work?
 
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sandungas said:
The only other alternative posible is if that thumb.db files was really in the "master" disc... but this kind of mistake would be a bit hilarious
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It sometimes happening like i.e executables with debug symbols or readme from sdk. In example on Halo 2 in "media" folder there is file called "command line.txt" and inside: :)
Code: 
cd C:\Program Files\Microsoft Xbox SDK\xbox\bin

bundler C:\halo2\bin\Downloader\media\dlcustom.rdf -o C:\halo2\bin\Downloader\media\dlcustom.xpr
bundler C:\halo2\bin\Downloader\media\dlres.rdf -o C:\halo2\bin\Downloader\media\dlres.xpr

Dlcustom holds the resources for the custom backgrounds. Dlres is the resources for all the buttons and controls. If dlres.xpr is absent then downloader will simply reference the default resources embedded in the .xbe. You must have the sdk installed in the default location for the command lines to work.
 
AlexRhine said:
The ird will be automatically generated by MGZ when you dump a decrypted ISO, in the same directory as the ISO. It should also be uploaded to Zar's server.

(Make sure you're using MGZ v1.39 or higher)
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So... here's the update... Tried to ftp (filezilla) the game to PS3 but it failed to transfer the majority of the game files (not an expert, don't know why). Copied the game (folder format) to my NTFS HDD, plugged into PS3 and used MGZ app (v1.40) to copy across to the PS3 HDD.
After the transfer completed I carried out a ird check in MGZ app. It reported 19 files missing, none of which are these Thumbs.db files (see attachment) *edit* This was caused by a bug known to the developer.


I proceeded to try and create an iso. of the game via MGS but it failed to complete (again, not an expert, don't know why). *edit* I did eventually manage to create an iso using MGZ (I did it via the main home screen rater than the file manager).

*edit* Once the iso was created I tried to carry out an ird check of the game via MGZ but after a few hours and once the HDD activity stopped I came to the conclusion that It wasn't going to successfully complete.
So Instead I checked the iso created via MGZ on the pc using PS3-ISO-Rebuilder and sucess! No missing files reported.

I then mounted the game via MGS and proceeded to install the game data and it completed 100% (Before when mounting as iso. It would only each 53%, a common problem, see link below).

https://www.psx-place.com/threads/splinter-cell-trilogy-hd-wont-install-game-data.12896/

Not sure how the games will play considering there's apparently 19 files missing but I guess time will tell.

Hope this helps someone.

*edit* Seems like its windows or makeps3iso that's causing these Thumb.db files to go missing when building iso on pc, which then causes the game data install to fail.
 

Attachments

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DonKeballs said:
So... here's the update... Tried to ftp (filezilla) the game to PS3 but it failed to transfer the majority of the game files (not an expert, don't know why). Copied the game (folder format) to my NTFS HDD, plugged into PS3 and used MGZ app (v1.40) to copy across to the PS3 HDD.
After the transfer completed i carried out a ird check in MGZ app. It reported 19 files missing, none of which are these Thumbs.db files (see attachment).

I proceeded to try and create an iso. of the game via MGS but it failed to complete (again, not an expert, don't know why).

I then decided to try and mount the game via MGS and it worked. I then proceeded to install the game data and to my surprise it completed 100% (Before when mounting as iso. It would only each 53%, a common problem, see link below).

https://www.psx-place.com/threads/splinter-cell-trilogy-hd-wont-install-game-data.12896/

Not sure how the games will play considering there's apparently 19 files missing but I guess time will tell.

Hope this helps someone.
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There are not missing, it's an issue from 1.40 cause by the 'dot' at the end of the path. There is a whole thread on this issue, it's already fixed for the next update ;)
 
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