PS3 Fault finding YLOD with the SYSCON - First steps and Error reporting

I have a question...on my A00 (that was Frankied with a 65nm RSX) the console worked great with great temps. When I had the frankie done I did not have the NEC Tokins changed. The person who did the job had tested the tokins with an oscillator and they checked out fine spec wise.

As of this week when I turn the console on from a cold boot it YLOD...
How long did it last before the tokins wore out? I'm pretty sure I know the servicer and taught him how to use an oscilloscope to check the tokins, so if he followed my advice and your tokins looked fine I am very curious to know how long they lasted before failing again. I would have thought they'd last a good long time, but the heat from the Frankie service may have shortened their lifespan. I'm just trying to get an idea of how long they can last if they looked good after the service, but will later fail anyway. If it's like a year, that not acceptable. And I will be changing my recommendation about leaving them on if they look fine.

But, after the issue is resolved is there any way to clear the syscon error log in the CFW without having to use the UART device through Windows, or is that the only way?
I recommend leaving the error history as it tells the story of the console. But yes, in safe mode, option 5 (Restore PS3 system) factory resets it as if you opened it brand new out of the box. That wipes the HDD and Errorlog.
 
Could you post the motherboard revisions or at least the platform ID (from which I can derive the MB rev)? There are 2 different MB revisions for 25xx and 43xx models. I track reports by MB rev.


From my previous post:

CECH2503A Date Code 0C (OFW 4.91)

Statistics: Boot Count 2013 - Shutdown Count 1999 - Runtime 124d 8h 25mn 3s
2 instances of 0xA0802130 in 2011 (Jan and Feb)


This console is Platform ID: CokJ13
This console is using MB: JTP-001

Rule out overheating due to poor thermal contact. 2130 is the CPU Thermal Monitor (IC1101) external sense line. Check C1002, R1003/4 & replace IC1002 before reballing CPU. If all else fails the CPU's thermal diode is dead.

This is the console I'm now using for my CFW experiments (for PlayTV etc). This console seems to be working very nicely indeed, and I'm almost regretting turning it into a CFW machine. It's never had any similar errors other than these two instances of 2130 since 2011 (I didn't own it back then, but it's a good amount of run hours on it, which i doubt is only hours done before the errors in 2011). Do you think there is a chance that something erroneous has caused these a month apart back in 2011, which may not be as severe as this console needing such intrusive work being done to it? After all, it's not a Phat console we're talking about here.
 
I'd recommend the 2103a, since that is considered the most reliable PS3 model. I just bought one in an attempt to find out what kills the most reliable PS3....turns out the answer is ignorance. It was not outputting video and full of A0802022. All it needed was video reset and boom back up! It doesn't read Blurays. So the BD laser is out, but I can replace the drive easily, so no big deal. I was hoping for something more exotic, but that model is a tank.

I'd already made my decision to replace my failing Phat console with this one:

CECH2503A Date Code 0D (OFW 4.82)
Statistics: Boot Count 1385 - Shutdown Count 1197 - Runtime 112d 17h 42mn 13s
NO ERRORS


The decision was made for me due to the fact this console had no errors at all in its lifetime, I knew the history of it for at least 10yrs of its life, and I know it's been used lightly by the G/F (Who's console it was before she said I could have it), who mostly just used it for Bluray and DVD movies rather than games. It's now been updated to OFW 4.91, and I spent hours on Sunday doing my data transfer on to it from the Phat console.

The reason I never chose this one:

CECH2103A (OFW 4.91)
Statistics: Boot Count 688 - Shutdown Count 633 - Runtime 58d 22h 16mn 20s
3 instances of 0xA0802022 in 2014 (All in Dec at the exact same time)


Although this one has half the runtime on it from the above chosen one, for some reason this console has a graphical glitch to it. The image produced from the console is sparkly in nature, with glitchy green instances of flashing artifacts randomly produced on-screen. I don't know what's causing that, but it put me off making it my fulltime replacement machine. Maybe if you could advise me what I can do about these glitchy artifacts on-screen, then I'd feel happier about it. Just like all the other consoles I've bought in the past few weeks, it's a very nice example to look at, and looks well cared for, and it's never been opened by anyone.
I just didn't like the on-screen output from it!
 
Do you think there is a chance that something erroneous has caused these a month apart back in 2011, which may not be as severe as this console needing such intrusive work being done to it?
I'm sure it's fine. 2130/31 are Thermal monitor voltage issues and is usually register in standby when the thermonitors are powered up and checked. Like if the MB temp was too hot near the thermal monitor, which could indicate a short. Can happen is the monitor is damaged from a reflow for example. Instead of allowing power to switch on the 12v circuit, it refuses to go anyfurther and you get an error in standby after plugging in.

I have heard of them registering from the power/eject daughter board's ribbon cable not being inserted properly, or shorting. Weird, IDK how it causes that, but it can happen.

If it only occured a couple time way back when and it isn't recurring now, I wouldn't worry about it. I would assume someone opened the console and messed around with it. Maybe got the ribbon inserted wrong. Or forgot thermal paste and it overheated. Accidentally shorted a contact...that sort of thing. If it was sealed, however...that is a bit more concerning. Then it might mean the thermal monitor or it's resistor pairs are drifting. You say it has CFW. Do the reported temps seem reasonable? Like not +/- 20C off from a comparable model?

But yeah...probably nothing to worry about.
 
I'd already made my decision to replace my failing Phat console with this one:

CECH2503A Date Code 0D (OFW 4.82)
Statistics: Boot Count 1385 - Shutdown Count 1197 - Runtime 112d 17h 42mn 13s
NO ERRORS


The decision was made for me due to the fact this console had no errors at all in its lifetime, I knew the history of it for at least 10yrs of its life, and I know it's been used lightly by the G/F (Who's console it was before she said I could have it), who mostly just used it for Bluray and DVD movies rather than games. It's now been updated to OFW 4.91, and I spent hours on Sunday doing my data transfer on to it from the Phat console.

The reason I never chose this one:

CECH2103A (OFW 4.91)
Statistics: Boot Count 688 - Shutdown Count 633 - Runtime 58d 22h 16mn 20s
3 instances of 0xA0802022 in 2014 (All in Dec at the exact same time)


Although this one has half the runtime on it from the above chosen one, for some reason this console has a graphical glitch to it. The image produced from the console is sparkly in nature, with glitchy green instances of flashing artifacts randomly produced on-screen. I don't know what's causing that, but it put me off making it my fulltime replacement machine. Maybe if you could advise me what I can do about these glitchy artifacts on-screen, then I'd feel happier about it. Just like all the other consoles I've bought in the past few weeks, it's a very nice example to look at, and looks well cared for, and it's never been opened by anyone.
I just didn't like the on-screen output from it!
I need MB revisions for these too.

The artifacting sounds like a bad RSX TBH, if there were a 90nm RSX that's what I would concluding. Possibly the HDMI port or transmitter. So double check the port is clean and the joints are good. Also the chokes and SMDs. But from such little use that'd be quite odd. You said it looked nice, so no drop damage that might explain how a BGA defect might occur? That's what my next suspicions would be. I suppose it could have been dropped and not cause visible damage to the case if it hit on carpet or something that softened the blow for the case, but still jostled the MB. Or a factory flaw and piss poor luck.
 
I'm sure it's fine. 2130/31 are Thermal monitor voltage issues and is usually register in standby when the thermonitors are powered up and checked. Like if the MB temp was too hot near the thermal monitor, which could indicate a short. Can happen is the monitor is damaged from a reflow for example. Instead of allowing power to switch on the 12v circuit, it refuses to go anyfurther and you get an error in standby after plugging in.

I have heard of them registering from the power/eject daughter board's ribbon cable not being inserted properly, or shorting. Weird, IDK how it causes that, but it can happen.

If it only occured a couple time way back when and it isn't recurring now, I wouldn't worry about it. I would assume someone opened the console and messed around with it. Maybe got the ribbon inserted wrong. Or forgot thermal paste and it overheated. Accidentally shorted a contact...that sort of thing. If it was sealed, however...that is a bit more concerning. Then it might mean the thermal monitor or it's resistor pairs are drifting. You say it has CFW. Do the reported temps seem reasonable? Like not +/- 20C off from a comparable model?

But yeah...probably nothing to worry about.

It's a weird one to be sure. The console is still original. Never been opened. I've seen no errors from it in the little time i've owned it. Currently it's running OFW 4.55, but I'm finished making a test at that level, so will be bringing it back up for a different sort of testing, so once it's been CFW'd again, I can monitor the temperatures. I haven't monitored its temperatures so far to date.
 
I need MB revisions for these too.

The artifacting sounds like a bad RSX TBH, if there were a 90nm RSX that's what I would concluding. Possibly the HDMI port or transmitter. So double check the port is clean and the joints are good. Also the chokes and SMDs. But from such little use that'd be quite odd. You said it looked nice, so no drop damage that might explain how a BGA defect might occur? That's what my next suspicions would be. I suppose it could have been dropped and not cause visible damage to the case if it hit on carpet or something that softened the blow for the case, but still jostled the MB. Or a factory flaw and piss poor luck.

I guess it's possible it's been dropped, but as you suggest, if so, then it's been on carpet or other soft impact as there is no visible evidence of damage in the case. Ports are all clean, HDMI cable is fine on other consoles, as is the TV on that same port. I'll have a further play with it and see if I can improve the situation in any way. When I realised it wasn't as happy as the others, I put it down and haven't looked at it since.

Maybe it's been like it from new, and never reported to the shop where it was bought, and this is why it's only been turned on for less than 59 days in its entire life...
 
I need MB revisions for these too.

What is this labelled as on the sysinfo and i'll advise.

If you just mean the MB models, these are as follows:

CECH2503A Date Code 0D (OFW 4.82) - now at OFW 4.91
Statistics: Boot Count 1385 - Shutdown Count 1197 - Runtime 112d 17h 42mn 13s
NO ERRORS


Platform ID: CokJ20
Board ID: JSD-001

&

CECH2103A (OFW 4.91)
Statistics: Boot Count 688 - Shutdown Count 633 - Runtime 58d 22h 16mn 20s
3 instances of 0xA0802022 in 2014 (All in Dec at the exact same time)


Platform ID: CokH11
Board ID: SUR-001

Just in case you're interested too, then the super slim is:

CECH4303A (OFW 4.75)
Statistics: Boot Count 18 - Shutdown Count 16 - Runtime 0d 5h 17mn 35s (OMG)
NO ERRORS


Platform ID: CokR40
Board ID: REX-001(eMMC)
 
Last edited:
I guess it's possible it's been dropped, but as you suggest, if so, then it's been on carpet or other soft impact as there is no visible evidence of damage in the case. Ports are all clean, HDMI cable is fine on other consoles, as is the TV on that same port. I'll have a further play with it and see if I can improve the situation in any way. When I realised it wasn't as happy as the others, I put it down and haven't looked at it since.

Maybe it's been like it from new, and never reported to the shop where it was bought, and this is why it's only been turned on for less than 59 days in its entire life...

@RIP-Felix, I've discovered that for whatever reason, this 2103A is perfect when outputting at a resolution of 1080i, and even on 1080p, it seems to be improving a bit. I'm now only getting sparkles, but now no artifacts with the 1080p option. I'm wondering if it's just in need of "exercise" to get it whipped into shape? Could be a manufacturing issue, but I doubt that would slip through the Sony QA net?
 
@RIP-Felix I'm wondering if it's just in need of "exercise" to get it whipped into shape? Could be a manufacturing issue, but I doubt that would slip through the Sony QA net?
Not a plausible mechanism. When artifacting changes behavior like that it suggests more there is a thermal or pressure related component. You could try pressing on the fan shroud, which applies pressure on the HS, and in turn to CPU/GPU. If that changes the artifacting or makes it go away it's likely a BGA fault. Also, try wiggling the port. It might be a broken or weak contact.
 
Not a plausible mechanism. When artifacting changes behavior like that it suggests more there is a thermal or pressure related component. You could try pressing on the fan shroud, which applies pressure on the HS, and in turn to CPU/GPU. If that changes the artifacting or makes it go away it's likely a BGA fault. Also, try wiggling the port. It might be a broken or weak contact.

So with a bit more messing last night, I discovered that the artifacts only come out on 1080p AND when the HDMI is plugged into the TV via an HDMI switched splitter I use (The other consoles don't do this). When I connect to the one of the TV HDMI ports directly, there are no artifacts at all, only the random sparkling happens, and this only happens on 1080p, not 1080i. Weirder and weirder. I'd have to open up the console to start pressing on stuff like you're suggesting. I'd already tried lightly wiggling the HDMI port, and also tried giving it a good blow through, but this doesn't change anything. I think if it was the port on the console, then it would affect 1080i too. I can't explain why only 1080p is affected....?!

When you say BGA fault, is that balling on the RSX you mean? I thought that was more typical of a 90nm rather than the 65nm (in the slim at least) which will be the chip used in this 2103A model.
 
Here's an unrelated thought I had last night with regards to my Phat console. Rather than rip the NEC TOKINS off the board, has anyone every tried paralleling up capacitors (a smaller amount of capacitance of course) to the NEC TOKINS, boosting/topping up their capacitance rather than completely replacing it with new?
 
When you say BGA fault, is that balling on the RSX you mean? I thought that was more typical of a 90nm rather than the 65nm (in the slim at least) which will be the chip used in this 2103A model.
21xx models use the 40nm RSX. Part of why they are considered the most relaible ps3. Ball Grid Arrays (BGA) are used on all the RSX revisions. Therefore, all of them can develop a BGA defect (crack, shearing from pad, voids, reflow defects, etc).

Some can be from the factory, like a cold solder joint due to a poor reflow profile or lack of flux or pad prep. Usually those issues are rare because they are caught and correcred batch to batch.

Or they can be from physical damage. Like drops, delidding, banging and vibration from shipping. Bending the Motherboard while installing and removing...etc. This is very common.

And thermocycling can eventually cause them as well, although not nearly as commonly as previously believed. This mechanism is well understood. Thermal design engineers made the console and RSX package (die, VRAM, underfil, IHS/stiffener, and adhesive) to withstand as many thermal cycles as possable. And they have proven very resiliant to normal thermal cycling, barring MNF defect or physical damage.

The thermal cycling issue affecting 90nm RSX was due to inappropriate choices in underfill and bump materials. And was corrected in the 65nm and carried throughout the 40nm and 28nm as well. They have no such defect.
 
21xx models use the 40nm RSX. Part of why they are considered the most relaible ps3. Ball Grid Arrays (BGA) are used on all the RSX revisions. Therefore, all of them can develop a BGA defect (crack, shearing from pad, voids, reflow defects, etc).

Surely though, the 21xx was just the start using the 40mn chips, and this continued through until the swap again in the earlier stages of the 40xx models, meaning as soon as they moved even away from the 65nm chipset (as well as the 90nm of course), then they are all as reliable as one another? Meaning surely the 25xx would be just as reliable as the 21xx?
 
Here's an unrelated thought I had last night with regards to my Phat console. Rather than rip the NEC TOKINS off the board, has anyone every tried paralleling up capacitors (a smaller amount of capacitance of course) to the NEC TOKINS, boosting/topping up their capacitance rather than completely replacing it with new?
Yes, that's not how it works. People think of capacitors as a battery, discharging when there are voltage drops. Where capacitance is like how much energy they have stored. That's not a bad analogy, but it's only 1 of the 2 important jobs.

The second, most important job, is to provide a low impeedance path to groud for switching noise. When a voltage regulator switches on and off to provide the voltage, it does so with really fast rise times. There is a little bit of extra momentum and thus overshoot causing a bery brief voltage spike and dip. That rings and stabilizes at the new voltage. Then it drops back down before the next pulse. That overshoot is at the switching frequency, but the ringing it also produces extends into harmoic frequencies above the switching frequency. That switching ripple and noise has to be given a low impeedance path to ground, so that instead of entering the Processor and interfering with signal discrimination, it "bypasses" the processor and follows the path of least resistance.

Capacitors have an impeedance vs frequency curve that is not linear. At a certain frequency there is a sweet spot where it's impeedance to a specific frequency is super low. If you carfully selcet the capacitors so that your switching noise and harmonics line up with the lowest impeedance of your capacitor array, then they will filter the ripple and noise. Bypassing the processor to ground instead. That's called the combined frequency response curve of the filter.

The combined frequency response curve changes based on the caps chosen and their individual characteristics. Of you combine the wrong ones, it can lead to antireaonance peaks that produce noise spikes and make the filter worse, not better.

This is why you want to select the capacitors carefully to reduce the noise/ripple (attenuate) specific to your filter.

The tokins were attenuated to the filter. Adding polymer caps in parallel changes the freqency response with unknown effects that could be worse, even if it appears to work (which is does BTW).

I know somoeone that added two 470uf tantalum parasites and it worked. It failed about 2 years later requiring more caps. The problem is you're putting a band aid over cancerous skin lesion. That may stop the bleeding, but the cancer is still there, getting worse.

You need to replace the bad cap. And if one is bad, the rest were exposed to the same temperatures and time that caused the 1st to exceed it's enduance specification. They will all begin failing in the coming years.

So if you want to keep opening the console, placing strain on the BGA each time you have to break suction on the paste, flexing the motherboard, to solder on a couple more parasite band aids every few months to years, that's up to you. But I offer my reccomendation that you remove all the tokins and replace the filter array with one designed to best approximate the previous one. Only this time, having a brand new 2000hr @105C endurance rating. That way you only have to open the console once and risk damaging the BGA physically just that one time.
 
Surely though, the 21xx was just the start using the 40mn chips, and this continued through until the swap again in the earlier stages of the 40xx models, meaning as soon as they moved even away from the 65nm chipset (as well as the 90nm of course), then they are all as reliable as one another? Meaning surely the 25xx would be just as reliable as the 21xx?
Ah, but you see, the 20xx and 21xx have a different wifi/BT board and VRM than the 25xx onward. Starting with the 25xx model there is a common reliability fault. A defect of sort causing many slims to die. Kinda like the 90nm RSX did in early models. The 25xx onward have a step down converter supplying power the wifi/BT module that tends to fail by sending 5v into the module, burning it out. Since that module is needed to wake when the PS button is oressed, it needs to be powered all the time. Unless you power off at the wall every day, it's on 24/7 and will eventually short and possably kill the Module.

20xx and 21xx done use the same VRM and module, and don't appear to experiance this issue.

Since 20xx has 65nm RSX and tokins, it's considered less reliable than the 21xx hat has the 40nm RSX and no tokins. Therefore there can be only one PS3 crowned with the title "most reliable." It's why they cost more than any other slim.
 
I understand the jobs capacitors have etc. I'm just trying to weigh up the pros and cons of the work involved and the resulting impact (negative as well as positive) of both approaches.

Replacing TOKINS is quite a risky and intrusive endeavour, which risks board warping and other negative side effects, which can add a problem that wasn't there to begin with. So I wondered whether a less intrusive, less risky addition (with the correct selection of capacitor of course) rather than replacement could be a way to go. Adding can be removed again, as well as still going on to replace later on, but replacing can only be done once. Not much turn back on that.

Anyway, I understand your argument and your relative position on that method now.

I hadn't realised there were other foibles with the later PS3's which aren't CELL/RSX/TOKIN related. Good to know. I better start turning off my 2503A replacement to my Phat CECHK model at the wall when I'm not using it (why Sony ever removed the rocker switch in the first place I'll never accept).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Removing tokens take less than 5 mins if you do it a certain way. Allot of people attack the corners with an exacto knife and just pry them off.
 
Yeah, dont use a heatgun to do it! An exacto knife to get under the edge works well, then you can pry them off. As for replacments, you can use tantalizers. I've done all the simulation, but you can also do it your self if you want a different array.
 
So with a bit more messing last night, I discovered that the artifacts only come out on 1080p AND when the HDMI is plugged into the TV via an HDMI switched splitter I use (The other consoles don't do this). When I connect to the one of the TV HDMI ports directly, there are no artifacts at all, only the random sparkling happens, and this only happens on 1080p, not 1080i. Weirder and weirder. I'd have to open up the console to start pressing on stuff like you're suggesting. I'd already tried lightly wiggling the HDMI port, and also tried giving it a good blow through, but this doesn't change anything. I think if it was the port on the console, then it would affect 1080i too. I can't explain why only 1080p is affected....?!

When you say BGA fault, is that balling on the RSX you mean? I thought that was more typical of a 90nm rather than the 65nm (in the slim at least) which will be the chip used in this 2103A model.

Well I feel a bit silly now. I've just discovered that the 2103A with the sparkling effects on-screen, and previously with flashing green random artifacts on-screen was actually a sub standard HDMI cable. I've now changed this out for a much nicer gold plated one, and hey presto, perfect video output even on 1080p! I think I might have gotten that sub standard one with the PS3 in the first place. Now there's a proper high quality one there, and it's done the trick. All consoles now displaying perfectly. Very pleased it was something stupid and not requiring surgery!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Similar threads

Back
Top