PS5 PS5 specs revealed today

sandungas said:
I thought in it when cerny mentioned that the 3D audio is dependant of custom hardware inside the AMD APU
As far i understood the "tempest engine" (awesome name btw) is using a special GPU core to get the positional data directly from inside the GPU, but they have not mentioned if there is something more inside the APU related with audio
You know, like the "video codec" that uses to exists in all APUs to encode and decode video, thats considered a "node" inside the APUs... and the 3D audio could have another "node" (a tiny one though)

And in the same line of thinking... maybe they did something similar for the emulators, something like a "processor translator node" to convert the instructions from the processors of old playstations on real time (and/or other needed hardware component from old playstations)
In that case the emulators would not be 100% software... if they depends of the tempest engine (being hardware) we could say the tempest engine is going to be responsible of 20% of the emulation, and the other 80% would be software

Dunno, but something like that could work... as said it was just a brainstorming i had :D
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Its a custom gpu that we have never seen before, and i think when they do the full console reveal they will give us more info in how backward compatibilty works Mark Cerny will talk more how the PS5 gpu compares to other GPU and of course they will reveal the console design and the controller design.
 
Agoni212 said:
I'm not overhyping but thats what it really is and Mark Cerny said it himself what variable frequency is he knows better than me and you because he is one of the key people on creating PS5 he is the lead architect, Xbox doesnt have it if they had they would have said that, both cpu and gpu have variable frequency in ps5 but not in xbox, its real and not a stupid marketing trick you will see it yourself soon.
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As far i know... the story is something like this

Since some years ago there was a war of 2 technologies to domain the market, both intended to reduce (or remove completly) the screen tearing an other annoyances related with time delays in between the video signal sent by the device (console, pc, etc) to the display (monitor, tv, etc)

Nvidia has been promoting the "g-sync" and AMD the "freesync"
G-sync needs to be made by hardware, the monitors compatibles with g-sync have a chip that does the work, and that chips cost money, the manufacturer had to pay a license for the technology, etc... this translates into more expensive monitors for the consumers
Freesync was free since beginning and is made by the video card itself (so the diplays are cheaper to manufacture because doesnt needs an special chip like g-sync does)

That war is still active because nvidia refuses to throw the towell and they doesnt wants to adopt the freesync
Anyway... there are many PC monitors that supports this technologies since some years ago... and now the TV manufacturers tryed to consolidate both technologies in what they names the "Variable Refresh Rate" thats is pretty much the same stuff than g-sync and freesync

The goal is the same, they wants to reduce the delays in between the video "emitter" and the display, it works nice but is only notable in some games and only from time to time (specially when you turn the camera fast to the sides)

To me it looks whatever the TV manufacturers wants to do is going to be what rides the industry, they decided to use the VRR and that seems to be the winner... specially now that the PS5 adopted it
And AMD is going to be fully into VRR, his primary goal when they made the "freesync" was to counterfeit the "g-sync" of nvidia
 
Ops sorry, if you was talking about the variable frequency of the CPU/GPU cores... thats a feature native of the AMD APUs
Since zen 1, the APU have tenths of thermal and voltage sensors inside it, to monitor the temperatures and voltages of small subcircuits (nodes) of the APU
This way you can have a very accurate control of the workload of different areas of the APU, lets say... if you have an area idle (because the game doesnt uses it) you can reduce his voltage and frequency very fast... in a matter of miliseconds from 100% to 5%

Is a pretty cool feature (pun intended) that is going to reduce temperature and noise, and is going to achieve a high "performance per wat"
In the conference it looks mark cerny insisted a bit in the performance and efficiency, and the cooling solution that we can deduce based in the leaked photos of the devkit that is going to be some special piece of engineery with a weird heatsink (and probably air ducts/pipes)
Dunno, but by now i think the PS5 is going to be very cool (pun intended again)

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What i dont get is why microsoft have not mentioned the variable frequencies... as mentioned before this features are native from the AMD APU
I mean... the APU of the next XBOX is going to have tenths of thermal and voltage sensors inside the APU too
 
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sandungas said:
Ops sorry, if you was talking about the variable frequency of the CPU/GPU cores... thats a feature native of the AMD APUs
Since zen 1, the APU have tenths of thermal and votlage sensors inside it, to monitor the temperatures and voltages of small subcircuits (nodes) of the APU
This way you can have a very accurate control of the workload of different areas of the APU, lets say... if you have an area idle (because the game doesnt uses it) you can reduce his voltage and frequency very fast... in a matter of miliseconds from 100% to 5%

Is a pretty cool feature (pun intended) that is going to reduce temperature and noise, and is going to achieve a high "performance per wat"
In the conference it looks mark cerny insisted a bit in the performance and efficiency, and the cooling solution that we can deduce based in the leaked photos of the devkit that is going to be some special piece of engineery with a weird heatsink (and probably air ducts/pipes)
Dunno, but by now i think the PS5 is going to be very cool (pun intended again)

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What i dont get is why microsoft have not mentioned the variable frequencies... as mentioned before this features are native from the AMD APU
I mean... the APU of the next XBOX is going to have tenths of thermal and voltage sensors inside the APU too
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Yes but im thinking why the PS5 design is still a mystery and they showed almost all the specs that ps5 will have, sony are really doing something sneaky to outperform xbox.
 
STLcardsWS said:
View attachment 24833


Looks like more will be revealed on this images as software is talked about . Looks like it at least missing one entry (noticed PS4 text is smaller then PS5 as well)
  • PS3 - If there is PS3 support would be in the form of a software emulator, which when covering hardware doubtful there would talk much about that. if its the case.. Will it be disc support or repurchases of games you own. Or PlayStation NOW only
  • PS2 / PS1 - Optical support via software emulation or digital downloads
  • Vita / PSP - Digital downloads (but handhelds are not console's so this is likely not a focus in BC discussions)

Also wondering if that shape has anything to do with the design of console (doubtful but i'll throw it out there nonetheless)
Click to expand...

This "empty" space is reserved for the Homebrew Community! :) https://twitter.com/rpcs3/status/1240349921787744264
ETabq3nWoAUTeXk.jpg orig.jpg
 
Agoni212 said:
Yes but im thinking why the PS5 design is still a mystery and they showed almost all the specs that ps5 will have, sony are really doing something sneaky to outperform xbox.
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Well, both consoles are the same APU series made with the same technology, the XBOX have 50 GPU cores, lets say that covers an area of size X
If you remove 14 cores (to match the 36 of the PS5) this gives us an area available to add other stuff inside the APU

We know 1 core is for the tempest engine... but what about the other area available ?, we still have an area equivalent to 13 GPU cores that is used for other stuff. I cant believe sony said AMD to fill it with <void>
There is still some mistery in that PS5 APU :D
 
sandungas said:
Well, both consoles are the same APU series made with the same technology, the XBOX have 50 GPU cores, lets say that covers an area of size X
If you remove 14 cores (to match the 36 of the PS5) this gives us an area available to add other stuff inside the APU

We know 1 core is for the tempest engine... but what about the other area available ?, we still have an area equivalent to 13 GPU cores that is used for other stuff. I cant believe sony said AMD to fill it with <void>
There is still some mistery in that PS5 APU :D
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Yes but according to Mark Cerny The GPU is stronger than what we see you know it has 36 Cu and xbox has 52 but some extra things like frequency and some other things make the GPU even stronger.
 
Agoni212 said:
Yes but according to Mark Cerny The GPU is stronger than what we see you know it has 36 Cu and xbox has 52 but some extra things like frequency and some other things make the GPU even stronger.
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Well, is the CPU what is stronger in the PS5 because the APU have custom "nodes" that offload the CPU cores
For the GPU XBOX went to the raw power (they asked AMD to drop more sauce) and sony decided to repurpose some GPU cores for other stuff

Is a bit like i said above, both APUs are built at the same 7nm technology and the area available for circuitry is exactly the same, if there is a difference of 14 GPU cores is because sony asked AMD to do something different with them

They hinted some of this magic stuff... the tempest engine, the kraken decompressor, etc... but there must be something more
I mean... by now we know there are 3 or 4 "nodes" that was the cause of the GPU core reduction (from the peak of 50 we can see in the XBOX) but probably are small, most probably they repurposed GPU cores, so every core is like a feature
 
Speaking again about the BC itself, it seems Sony and/or their marketing did a very bad move with those "we tested the 100 most-played PS4 Games and nearly all of them worked fine." Most of the people understood this that at the moment, only 100 PS4 Titles are actually working. So Sony responded:

ETkn3PcX0AI5Xor.jpg orig.jpg

But personally speaking, I see again two problems:
  • I don't like all those "We believe ..." and "We're expecting ..." (for me this means that they have actually nothing prepared).
  • Those "boosted frequency" wasn't explained by Mark Cerny at all during the presentation and when I look at the graphic before, then I understand this more that "the CPU/GPU will reduce it's Power/Bandwith" to work as described in "Legacy Mode" and not like how they hope now in this updated statement.
Either someone at Sony really messed this up or BC wise, or they are still in its early stages and it is again questionable how many PS4 Titles will be actually playable at launch. For me it doesn't look that good if you ask me, especially not compared to the Series X.


EDIT

And speaking again about PS3 Emulation, since you guys really believe this bullshit will happen:

ETkyzCbWAAEfvbe.jpg orig.jpg
 
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Roxanne said:
Speaking again about the BC itself, it seems Sony and/or their marketing did a very bad move with those "we tested the 100 most-played PS4 Games and nearly all of them worked fine." Most of the people understood this that at the moment, only 100 PS4 Titles are actually working. So Sony responded:

View attachment 24846
But personally speaking, I see again two problems:
  • I don't like all those "We believe ..." and "We're expecting ..." (for me this means that they have actually nothing prepared).
  • Those "boosted frequency" wasn't explained by Mark Cerny at all during the presentation and when I look at the graphic before, then I understand this more that "the CPU/GPU will reduce it's Power/Bandwith" to work as described in "Legacy Mode" and not like how they hope now in this updated statement.
Either someone at Sony really messed this up or BC wise, they are still in its early stages and it is again questionable how many PS4 Titles will be actually playable at launch. For me it doesn't look that good if you ask me, especially not compared to the Series X.


EDIT

And speaking again about PS3 Emulation, since you guys really believe this bullshit will happen:

View attachment 24847
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Most of xbox fans and you i think are not understanding the concept of what sony is really trying to do, sony didnt reveal anything about backward compatibility yes thats right they said it will be backward compatibility with some PS4 games and you will see when full console reveal comes they will say that it will be full backward compatible with PS4, there is also a chance that it may have backward compatibility with ps3 even tho chances are low due to hard connection from PS5 to PS3, but yes there is still a lot to see and this wasnt nothing only a developer conference. And talking about boosted frequency AMD has its own turbo core it is also called AMD core performance boost processor to dynamically adjust and control the processor operating frequency in certain versions of its processors which allows for increased performance when needed while maintaining lower power. Sony has truly showed us an amazing ssd which is mindblowing in performance it also gives an advantage to developers to create bigger worlds without any problem and to render levels and worlds much faster in a way never seen before.
 
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wasn't there only nine psp games prepared for bc on the vita in north america at launch? sony expected their fans to figure out what was and was not playable by randomly buying games on psn cerny was the lead architect of that system as well, so I don't hold a lot of hope for what he says.
 
pinky said:
wasn't there only nine psp games prepared for bc on the vita in north america at launch? sony expected their fans to figure out what was and was not playable by randomly buying games on psn cerny was the lead architect of that system as well, so I don't hold a lot of hope for what he says.
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Well actually you should hope for what he says all he said about PS4 & PS4 PRO was true because he was the lead architect of PS4 as well, and PS5 will be something different with that SSD, i cant wait for a fan event where he explains specs & PS5 controller even better.
 
Btw guys this is what I meant before that you shouldn't believe every "new and fancy" marketing trick you saw at the reveal:

https://developer.dolby.com/blog/spatial-audio-and-the-ps5/

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."
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So as explained, keep in mind guys that such companies always want to get most of the drawn attention from you. Best example, I released a new Interview today but only that it has over 10000 words doesn't mean that "this is now the best interview ever made".

And some additional thinking. Cerny explained that this Tempest Engine is running with one of the CPU cores. And since both PS5 and Series X will have the same CPU ........................

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/xbox-series-x-audio/

You know what I mean lol
 
People saying X Series already won the generation just because it has more (just a few more) GPU cores. Seems you didn't learn anything in the last 20 years..
pinky said:
isn't this digital bc as well or can the ps5 play a ps4 disc?
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That's the main goal, and what people that know how this works, think it will happen. Actually, you'll need a PS5 and PS3 BC on your TV table to have all PS games since '94 to this day, and that won't change, at all. It's fair for me, since I don't like the PS4s, but I'm jumping into the PS5 ship since day 0 lol.

Did Cerny said somewhere that the PS2 emulation will be available on PS5? I don't think so, since starting from there, he would be forced to say something about the PS3 emulation, and that's a dirty terrain to play in. PS3 emulator is in beta state, so people, forget about something like that on PS5, it's just stupid to think about it, even if the PS5 were powerful enough to run every game at 60fps, it's impossible.

Remember that Sony used a third party emulator for PSX classic? Don't expect something out of this world about emulation on PS5, except for PS4, 'cause those games will run natively on PS5.
 
ElGris said:
People saying X Series already won the generation just because it has more (just a few more) GPU cores. Seems you didn't learn anything in the last 20 years..

That's the main goal, and what people that know how this works, think it will happen. Actually, you'll need a PS5 and PS3 BC on your TV table to have all PS games since '94 to this day, and that won't change, at all. It's fair for me, since I don't like the PS4s, but I'm jumping into the PS5 ship since day 0 lol.

Did Cerny said somewhere that the PS2 emulation will be available on PS5? I don't think so, since starting from there, he would be forced to say something about the PS3 emulation, and that's a dirty terrain to play in. PS3 emulator is in beta state, so people, forget about something like that on PS5, it's just stupid to think about it, even if the PS5 were powerful enough to run every game at 60fps, it's impossible.

Remember that Sony used a third party emulator for PSX classic? Don't expect something out of this world about emulation on PS5, except for PS4, 'cause those games will run natively on PS5.
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People arent saying that only xbox fans say such things, sony are very smart because they are not focusing only in one thing unlike xbox that is focusing only in the gpu so do xbox fans they are focusing only on the gpu and talking about teraflops.
 
It's utterly hilarious to look back on this and see how many people called him a liar, said he was damage controlling... and yet how everything he's said here has proven to be true.
 
ElGris said:
People saying X Series already won the generation just because it has more (just a few more) GPU cores. Seems you didn't learn anything in the last 20 years..

That's the main goal, and what people that know how this works, think it will happen. Actually, you'll need a PS5 and PS3 BC on your TV table to have all PS games since '94 to this day, and that won't change, at all. It's fair for me, since I don't like the PS4s, but I'm jumping into the PS5 ship since day 0 lol.

Did Cerny said somewhere that the PS2 emulation will be available on PS5? I don't think so, since starting from there, he would be forced to say something about the PS3 emulation, and that's a dirty terrain to play in. PS3 emulator is in beta state, so people, forget about something like that on PS5, it's just stupid to think about it, even if the PS5 were powerful enough to run every game at 60fps, it's impossible.

Remember that Sony used a third party emulator for PSX classic? Don't expect something out of this world about emulation on PS5, except for PS4, 'cause those games will run natively on PS5.
Click to expand...

And if Sony somehow achieves BC on the PS5 for all the Playstation consoles, they wouldn't gave it for free. I know for sure that Sony will try to re sell (for the n-th time) your already purchased games (everything digital of course, so if your HDD, internal battery or whatever crap breaks, you loose your game... the PS Store is not reliable either as content disappear).
 
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