PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[Kleon1876]

You're trying to boot a console without a few NECs? You can get an instant YLOD or GLOD, it depends of the state of the remaining NECs.

You won't get a console running if you don't add a few tantalums, the best you can get in the worst situation is a GLOD. I have an H that didn't want to boot even with 4 NECs replaced, I removed the 5th and it booted. Meaning that sometimes a NEC is not only there doing nothing, but will prevent you to get the console booting.

This is only for testing the console's start up. Some PS3s, specially 2xxx, don't need all the NEC replaced for playing games normally, but in FATs, depending of the size of both dies, you'll need a complete or partial replacement.

So far replace 3 rsx and 2 cpu tokins. Still glod. Now the controller doesn't even blink.

 

[ElGris]

So far replace 3 rsx and 2 cpu tokins. Still glod. Now the controller doesn't even blink.

Maybe you have damage bgas on CELL, or the RSX is dead as people said. Did you delid them? If yes, post a picture of both naked processors. You shouldn't have so much troubles in getting that console running if it's only a NEC problem.

 

[Kleon1876]

Maybe you have damage bgas on CELL, or the RSX is dead as people said. Did you delid them? If yes, post a picture of both naked processors. You shouldn't have so much troubles in getting that console running if it's only a NEC problem.

I'll post in a minute I just reflowed the rsx.

 

[Kleon1876]

Maybe you have damage bgas on CELL, or the RSX is dead as people said. Did you delid them? If yes, post a picture of both naked processors. You shouldn't have so much troubles in getting that console running if it's only a NEC problem.

the black on the capacitors is from electrical tape

confirming I down need to bridge since 2 tokins left (1 for each chip)

 

[ElGris]

The delid looks clean, but the soldering needs a change. You have to use flux for this job, that will help you with the soldering and you won't need to add tin that much in order to get a good soldering. Apart of that, I can see that many caps' connections look suspicious, I'll recomend you to remove everything and start again, this time using flux and by watching how to solder properly.

And if after doing that you can't make the console boot, then the first thing we can think about is BGA. Test the console without the hdd, you can see after seconds if you have image either A/V or HDMI, always check both.

See how your TV is responding, if you aren't able to see any changes in the TV state (i.e "no display"->"720p") via A/V or HDMI, then the CELL could be having BGA issues. Normally, the TV shows a little change in blacks, so keep that in mind.

At the end, remove every NEC, is the last thing you can do. If those caps are chinese, beware, those are crappy quality..

 

[Kleon1876]

The delid looks clean, but the soldering needs a change. You have to use flux for this job, that will help you with the soldering and you won't need to add tin that much in order to get a good soldering. Apart of that, I can see that many caps' connections look suspicious, I'll recomend you to remove everything and start again, this time using flux and by watching how to solder properly.

And if after doing that you can't make the console boot, then the first thing we can think about is BGA. Test the console without the hdd, you can see after seconds if you have image either A/V or HDMI, always check both.

See how your TV is responding, if you aren't able to see any changes in the TV state (i.e "no display"->"720p") via A/V or HDMI, then the CELL could be having BGA issues. Normally, the TV shows a little change in blacks, so keep that in mind.

At the end, remove every NEC, is the last thing you can do. If those caps are chinese, beware, those are crappy quality..

so I just tested it and still nothing. Glod. Turn on no display. I tried booting into safe mode, gets the beeps etc but still nothing. The controller sometimes blinks, other times stop blinking completely. Sometimes blinks fast and sometimes slow. My tokins are from China. Which capacitors do you recommend? Do u have a website to by from. How do I test the r tokins with multimeter? I also cut some of the metal around the capacitors to relieve pressure as I read that could be a problem and still nothing. Let me remove them all and start the console without the capacitors I put on. I'll leave the original 2 tokins remaining. Do you think I'll get ylod if it's a poor solder job? Let me post the multimeter I have. Which setting should I use.

 

[Kleon1876]

Here are the multimeters I own. Let me remove the capacitors and test

 

[Kleon1876]

The delid looks clean, but the soldering needs a change. You have to use flux for this job, that will help you with the soldering and you won't need to add tin that much in order to get a good soldering. Apart of that, I can see that many caps' connections look suspicious, I'll recomend you to remove everything and start again, this time using flux and by watching how to solder properly.

And if after doing that you can't make the console boot, then the first thing we can think about is BGA. Test the console without the hdd, you can see after seconds if you have image either A/V or HDMI, always check both.

See how your TV is responding, if you aren't able to see any changes in the TV state (i.e "no display"->"720p") via A/V or HDMI, then the CELL could be having BGA issues. Normally, the TV shows a little change in blacks, so keep that in mind.

At the end, remove every NEC, is the last thing you can do. If those caps are chinese, beware, those are crappy quality..

I tried the av cable with and without hdd. Nothing on screen. The controller slow blinks when I try to go into safe mode. Going to remove all the caps now and test without caps. Hopefully ylod would mean bad soldering job. If still glod then I have no idea. I'll post in a few. Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Kleon1876]

Removed these. Left the bottom ones. Going to test.

 

[ElGris]

If you're getting the beeps from the secure mode sequence, then CELL is alive, and RSX should be causing the GLOD. Do this:

*Remove every NEC, and replace them with the tantalums you have. Before that, clean the rails with a soldering wick, and install again. Don't forget the flux and bridges. Those chinese caps are crap, but they'll definitely work for a start up, so if you still aren't able to get video, then the RSX is dead.And the only solution for that is to replace it using a rework machine.

For testing the NECs you need to remove them perfectly, hard task. Those multimeters aren't capacitance readers, so they aren't helpful.

P/S: try to post everything in just one comment.

 

[Kleon1876]

Still glod. Moving on to the bottom of cpu. Going to test

 

[Kleon1876]

If you're getting the beeps from the secure mode sequence, then CELL is alive, and RSX should be causing the GLOD. Do this:

*Remove every NEC, and replace them with the tantalums you have. Before that, clean the rails with a soldering wick, and install again. Don't forget the flux and bridges. Those chinese caps are crap, but they'll definitely work for a start up, so if you still aren't able to get video, then the RSX is dead.And the only solution for that is to replace it using a rework machine.

For testing the NECs you need to remove them perfectly, hard task. Those multimeters aren't capacitance readers, so they aren't helpful.

P/S: try to post everything in just one comment.

sorry about the multiple posts
I removed all the caps and still glod. 2 necs remaining. One on each chip. Now the controller doesn't blink at all. Do you have a good website to buy quality caps? And what gauge wire should I use to bridge ?

 

[ElGris]

Like I said, if it isn't running with all you put so far, then you're wasting your time (and money), pretty much. It could be a soldering matter, but I don't think using better caps will change your situation, I used less than that to make run some, so better invest your money in a more reliable PS3.

Most people buy their caps from mouser, links are some pages back, you have all the info there. About the gauge, I use atx PSU wires, no problem with that.

 

[Kleon1876]

Like I said, if it isn't running with all you put so far, then you're wasting your time (and money), pretty much. It could be a soldering matter, but I don't think using better caps will change your situation, I used less than that to make run some, so better invest your money in a more reliable PS3.

Most people buy their caps from mouser, links are some pages back, you have all the info there. About the gauge, I use atx PSU wires, no problem with that.

at this point it's experimental. I removed al the rsx tokins and left only 1 cpu nec. I cleaned out with wick like you said and I tried starting it and got instant ylod. Now I'm going to try and put the caps on. Carefully and bridge the rsx to see what happens.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Will this fix a red light of death? I have the fat 60gb launch model CECHA. It took a dump with the YLOD ten years ago playing a 24 hour race in GT5. Bought a slim to hold me over. I had a reball done by the most reputable place, i forget who. They called me to tell me that they did 2 reballs and that it wasn't working. They would try a reball again and eventually they got it to work. Around nine months later the console crapped out again with the RLOD. I put the system away figuring that it was unfixable. Having read this i have renewed hope in my launch PS3. The console gives three beeps and shuts off immediately after firing it up. I figure i've got nothing to lose so why not try.

A YLOD is the same as a RLOD. 3 beeps, LED flashes yellow once, then flashes red thereafter.

Replacing with tantalum will only fix your console if you have bad NEC/TOKIN capacitors AND good BGA connections. If your console was overheating before the YLOD (it was if the fan was loud) then most likely the BGA is damaged and you need a reball. Keep reading....

I have a cechh01 which had ylod. I took it apart and replaced one nec tokin on the non RSX side with 4 capacitors. I tried it and still ylod. I delid the gpu and cpu carefully without scratching any of the chips. Reapplied mx4 and turned it in. I got GLOD...

A Mechanical BGA re-connections from the process of removing the Tokins and soldering on tantalums (even deliding) can cause a range of false positive results, from fully working (temporary) consoles, graphical artifacting, GLOD, to nothing at all (YLOD, no change). @squeepts said "flexing the board by microscopic amounts...It will just as easily give you a false positive from a mechanical re-connection of a cracked joint." If the issue was with the tokins, not your solder joints, then the tantalum replacement would work. The only way to tell is with an oscilloscope and most people are unwilling to buy one just for this.

@squeept fixes PS3's in volume and says he 'rarely finds bad tokins, it's mostly bad solder joints causing problems.' That's not the answer we "want" to hear, so we make up reasons why it could be fixed with the tantalums. But why? It looks like an easy mod, so people think, "hey, why not DIY?" First, it's not as easy as it looks! Second, after getting a mechanical re-connection and a successful boot, many people prematurely conclude it's fixed. Then they post a video on youtube, other people see it, get duped by the myth and it perpetuates. Why? It's just like aliens. There's nothing conclusive, but people spin all kinds of "evidence" to convince themselves and others they exist. We want to believe the myth more than we want to believe the truth.

While you may get a GLOD after removing a tokin, that doesn't mean the capacitor caused it. It sounds to me like you're rationalizing a bypass capacitor can cause a GLOD - That if this were true, the tantalum caps might fix your console. This is wishful thinking! You can't know for sure unless you got a GLOD after removing tokins 1 by 1 on a working console. @squeept actually did this and the console kept working with half the tokins removed.

In my admittedly limited experience, the GLOD is associated with a BGA failure. YLOD can be caused by the tokins or solder cracks. If your YLOD was caused by a crack, you're more likely to experience a GLOD while messing around with the tokins (which were probably fine to begin with).

 

[Kleon1876]

A YLOD is the same as a RLOD. 3 beeps, LED flashes yellow once, then flashes red thereafter.

Replacing with tantalum will only fix your console if you have bad NEC/TOKIN capacitors AND good BGA connections. If your console was overheating before the YLOD (it was if the fan was loud) then most likely the BGA is damaged and you need a reball. Keep reading....

A Mechanical BGA re-connections from the process of removing the Tokins and soldering on tantalums (even deliding) can cause a range of false positive results, from fully working (temporary) consoles, graphical artifacting, GLOD, to nothing at all (YLOD, no change). @squeepts said "flexing the board by microscopic amounts...It will just as easily give you a false positive from a mechanical re-connection of a cracked joint." If the issue was with the tokins, not your solder joints, then the tantalum replacement would work. The only way to tell is with an oscilloscope and most people are unwilling to buy one just for this.

@squeept fixes PS3's in volume and says he 'rarely finds bad tokins, it's mostly bad solder joints causing problems.' That's not the answer we "want" to hear, so we make up reasons why it could be fixed with the tantalums. But why? It looks like an easy mod, so people think, "hey, why not DIY?" First, it's not as easy as it looks! Second, after getting a mechanical re-connection and a successful boot, many people prematurely conclude it's fixed. Then they post a video on youtube, other people see it, get duped by the myth and it perpetuates. Why? It's just like aliens. There's nothing conclusive, but people spin all kinds of "evidence" to convince themselves and others they exist. We want to believe the myth more than we want to believe the truth.

While you may get a GLOD after removing a tokin, that doesn't mean the capacitor caused it. It sounds to me like you're rationalizing a bypass capacitor can cause a GLOD - That if this were true, the tantalum caps might fix your console. This is wishful thinking! You can't know for sure unless you got a GLOD after removing tokins 1 by 1 on a working console. @squeept actually did this and the console kept working with half the tokins removed.

In my admittedly limited experience, the GLOD is associated with a BGA failure. YLOD can be caused by the tokins or solder cracks. If your YLOD was caused by a crack, you're more likely to experience a GLOD while messing around with the tokins (which were probably fine to begin with).

Thank you for the detailed answer.

 

[Kleon1876]

Like I said, if it isn't running with all you put so far, then you're wasting your time (and money), pretty much. It could be a soldering matter, but I don't think using better caps will change your situation, I used less than that to make run some, so better invest your money in a more reliable PS3.

Most people buy their caps from mouser, links are some pages back, you have all the info there. About the gauge, I use atx PSU wires, no problem with that.

update:
I took of the caps, cleaned the rails with wick, left only 1 tokin on the cpu side. Ylod after i removed last nec from rsx. I put the caps on, ylod. I bridged the bottom side of the rsx and got same glod I had before. Thoughts?

 

[Kleon1876]

Like I said, if it isn't running with all you put so far, then you're wasting your time (and money), pretty much. It could be a soldering matter, but I don't think using better caps will change your situation, I used less than that to make run some, so better invest your money in a more reliable PS3.

Most people buy their caps from mouser, links are some pages back, you have all the info there. About the gauge, I use atx PSU wires, no problem with that.

Still glod. Back to square 1. Ran out of caps. 1 nec remaining on the board. Should I try and reflow?

 

[ElGris]

With all you did we can confirm that the NEC method worked, as you get and fix the YLOD as you want, but there's a problem with the BGAs or RSX it self. CELL is in good condition since you said the DS3 was paired with the console while having the HDD inserted.

Now, I forgot to mention something you can test on the RSX by using the multimeter. Usually when the RSX is in bad condition, you either get a YLOD (short on the BGAs [maybe] or damaged die) or a GLOD when the RSX is dead or making poor contact with the mobo.

I have consoles with both cases. An A that I have, it has GLOD and a delayed YLOD. Console isn't going to show anything even if I'd change the NECs, I have no response on TV. The previous owner even delidded the RSX and removed a few caps.

This is another trick that I didn't tell you, but is the last resort and you won't be able to let it as is right now without good skills with the iron. I mean, you need to see if the caps on the RSX (luckily you already delidded it) are in short, problably they will be. Then the next step is to remove them and see if you can get something on screen. If you don't know how to test that, just ask. You need to remove every cap that is in short, and test. Btw, the little blue ones I think are resistors, I didn't test them yet.

Many could fix a blackout/YLOD or even GLOD by making this:

I'm gonna upload a couple of pics of my A's RSX so you can understand. All of this is just trial and error :/


P/S: I have some fats stored in boxes, with different problems, just a few have NEC issues only, since the other ones have other problems (apart of the NECs for sure..). Sadly people like to "play" with them before selling them, so this is usually a russian roulette, but most of them have solution, I just need a rework machine..

So, I have an H with GLOD and I'm gonna delid it and compare with an H that is running fine, and that will be the ultimate comparison lol.

P/S: Those bridges look dangerous, the tip of the wire needs to be shorter, just to make contact with the tantalum/positive rail.

 

[RIP-Felix]

just to follow up on @ElGris comment, when testing continuity of tiny value MLCC's it's normal to get a buzz. Read resistance! If greater than 0.5Ohms, it's not shorted.