PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[Naked_Snake1995]

I got good new,bad news and another good news

First i started working on this capacitor on right side, only one capacitor as you guys suggested.

I soldered 3 small capacitors (2R5TPE470M9 470UF 2.5V)

The first good news here is now the PS3 is working normally, Before it wont turn on until i spam the power button for like 10 mins.
after soldering the capacitors, its working from the first time
And then i got the bad news, when i try to start any game its going to black screen and nothing happen.
Then i start thinking what is the causing of the issue , i touched the new capacitors while the console is on.
I found that the two capacitors near each other they are hot when i touch them, but the other one is not hot at all.
I though maybe i did not solder it probably, so i reflowed the soldering there, and i tested again but also the same problem.
I decided to add the 4th capacitor just to make sure there is enough capacity for the console to make it work.

Even with adding the 4th capacitor the same issue still, console working fine with menus, but when i start a game, black screen.
Then i started thinking again what was wrong in what i am doing .
all this time i was testing the console without the Blue-ray drive connected to the ps3, then i plugged the drive and start testing the games, ITS WORKING .
it was from the drive not plugged in the console and i thought its not necessary but it is NECESSARY to run the games
Now the console is running great, its time for testing heavy games. any suggestion to what games i should test?
Next mission for me is to mod it to add fans and make the heating less on the console.
Thanks to everyone in this thread who helped me, thank you so much <3

Usually people suggest Uncharted or The Last Of Us, but The Last Of Us, puts some strain on the Phats, unless you make a full replacement, that game will tax on the GPU power draw, which eventually will shutdown, so i would suggest Uncharted, or NFS Pro Street, which also taxes on the RSX making them a perfect candidates for partial replacements.

Isolate thoes capacitors with some electrical tape, you are bound to have a short with the EMI Sheild if you leave them exposed like that.

And please, do not add any more fans, the way it is its already fine, just keep your temps in check, and your console will last years of abuse. [emoji106]

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[AluCarD3939]

Isolate thoes capacitors with some electrical tape, you are bound to have a short with the EMI Sheild if you leave them exposed like that.

is it ok if i isolate it with this type of tape ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914234426.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2cc03c00NXcovK&mp=1

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

is it ok if i isolate it with this type of tape ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914234426.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2cc03c00NXcovK&mp=1

Thats BGA Heat Tape, it doesn't Isolate electric current in anyway, electrical tape is dirt cheap, is the one you use to Isolate electrical wires.

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[AluCarD3939]

Thats BGA Heat Tape, it doesn't Isolate electric current in anyway, electrical tape is dirt cheap, is the one you use to Isolate electrical wires.

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what about heat, may the heat will melt the electric tape ? second thing why i should not mod the case for more air flow ?
My plan was to make hole where the ps3 fan is and add 3 tiny fans from the side to suck more air inside.

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

what about heat, may the heat will melt the electric tape ? second thing why i should not mod the case for more air flow ?
My plan was to make hole where the ps3 fan is and add 3 tiny fans from the side to suck more air inside.

No, the heat inside the machine is no more than 40 to 50°Cs, the BGA Tape is only effective at high temperatures, that's between the range of 150~450°Cs,so at that temperature it's pretty much usless.

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[Bozo]

Well sad news from me - I replaced 3 caps and the console would still do its thing: Turn on for 20 seconds and then ylod after which it wouldn't turn on unless it would be off for 6-8 hours. So i replaced the 4th cap (seemed promising, after opening it there were scorch marks inside) - 2 rsx caps, 2 cell caps. After that, the console stopped turning on, it just goes straight to ylod. I don't know whether i damaged something or what - i resoldered that last cap 2 times to no avail. I'm at my wit's end, I think it's time to say goodbye to this ps3.

 

[sandungas]

Thats BGA Heat Tape, it doesn't Isolate electric current in anyway, electrical tape is dirt cheap, is the one you use to Isolate electrical wires.

No, the heat inside the machine is no more than 40 to 50°Cs, the BGA Tape is only effective at high temperatures, that's between the range of 150~450°Cs,so at that temperature it's pretty much usless.

Is not useless, is polymide/kapton tape, works great and it does the electrical isolation

The problem of the normal electrical tape is not the plastic but the glue on a side of it, that glue degrades and becomes like liquid, and is very hard to clean it, is needed alcohol to remove the shitty glue
When you stick the tape or in the next weeks looks ok, but take another look after 1 year of use having hundreds of cycles of heat up, heat down

The polymide/kapton tape doesnt have this problem, the only problem of it is that is more expensive than the normal electrical tape, but not much (just dont buy the original kapton brand)

 

[Bozo]

Okay, I decided to take a look one last time, and it turns out i soldered 2 caps poorly. So i went and resoldered them, the console now turns on again, still with the same symptoms - turns on for like 20 seconds, then dies and dies. Do You guys think i should try replacing more caps?

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Okay, I decided to take a look one last time, and it turns out i soldered 2 caps poorly. So i went and resoldered them, the console now turns on again, still with the same symptoms - turns on for like 20 seconds, then dies and dies. Do You guys think i should try replacing more caps?

I would advise, and say yes, but make sure you solder them properly.

How many caps are you replacing on each NEC Tokin, and what uF?

My advice, solder them in Parallel with the NEC/TOKINs, this will reinforce the current provided, and you'll avoid removing the original ones to create a big mess.

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[Bozo]

How many caps are you replacing on each NEC Tokin, and what uF?

My advice, solder them in Parallel with the NEC/TOKINs, this will reinforce the current provided, and you'll avoid removing the original ones to create a big mess.

I'm soldering four 477uF 6,3V caps per one NEC Tokin. Only one of the NECs has been replaced with 3 instead of 4 tantalum caps because i only ordered 16 caps for my first try and accidentaly broke off a contact on one.

Also, how would would You go about soldering them in parallel? I have no idea how would I find any space for that. Wires?

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

I'm soldering four 477uF 6,3V caps per one NEC Tokin. Only one of the NECs has been replaced with 3 instead of 4 tantalum caps because i only ordered 16 caps for my first try and accidentaly broke off a contact on one.

Also, how would would You go about soldering them in parallel? I have no idea how would I find any space for that. Wires?

Hold on, you are solder 1 Tantalum per NEC!? Thats certainly not going to work, perhaps i misread the reply.

Anyway, to solder them in Parallel is fairly easy, you just burn the NEC Plastic Shell a bit until you leave the positive contact exposed, for example by the tips, and solder them there, and then tge negative point you solder them to the ground points on the motherboard.

This picture shall clear your doubts, if my explanation is a bit pathetic.

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[Bozo]

Hold on, you are solder 1 Tantalum per NEC!? Thats certainly not going to work, perhaps i misread the reply.

Not at all, I'm soldering 4 tantalums per NEC, like this:

 

[AluCarD3939]

Is not useless, is polymide/kapton tape, works great and it does the electrical isolation

The problem of the normal electrical tape is not the plastic but the glue on a side of it, that glue degrades and becomes like liquid, and is very hard to clean it, is needed alcohol to remove the shitty glue
When you stick the tape or in the next weeks looks ok, but take another look after 1 year of use having hundreds of cycles of heat up, heat down

The polymide/kapton tape doesnt have this problem, the only problem of it is that is more expensive than the normal electrical tape, but not much (just dont buy the original kapton brand)

I took for your advice and i taped the capacitors with Kapton tape.

Now the console running very good and i played God Of War 3 for like 20 mins and run great.

Now i am worried from another issue, when i was testing the console, it was without the housing to check before i close it for sure.
the other issue is the heat on the PSU (power supply) it was very hot when i was playing, since its on the top of the (CPU or GPU i am not sure :P).
i checked the air flow from behind of the console, it was kick cold air and PSU is very hot, also the AC it was on and it was hitting directly on the console.

why the heat is trapped only at PSU ? is that mean the heatsink is not transferring the heat from CPU/GPU since the air coming from behind is cold ?
any suggestions ? modding the console to kick that heat ?

 

[sandungas]

I took for your advice and i taped the capacitors with Kapton tape.

Now the console running very good and i played God Of War 3 for like 20 mins and run great.

Now i am worried from another issue, when i was testing the console, it was without the housing to check before i close it for sure.
the other issue is the heat on the PSU (power supply) it was very hot when i was playing, since its on the top of the (CPU or GPU i am not sure :P).
i checked the air flow from behind of the console, it was kick cold air and PSU is very hot, also the AC it was on and it was hitting directly on the console.

why the heat is trapped only at PSU ? is that mean the heatsink is not transferring the heat from CPU/GPU since the air coming from behind is cold ?
any suggestions ? modding the console to kick that heat ?

Yep, the hot air cummulates inside some PSU models, thats a problem
To try to improve that ive seen some people that removed the top cover of the PSU, this way the air that is moving inside the whole console can circulate a bit inside the PSU

Btw, the way how the air moves inside the PS3 fats is very weird, you can do the trick of using a cord of cotton (or a thin long paper), and hold it with your hand vertically, at the back of the PS3
Also, while doing this test move the paper to the left of the PSU and to the right of PSU

At low speeds the fan is "sucking" air from outise at left... and "pushing" air outside at right
Is weird, this is why you feel the air cool... because a part of the air "sucked" is "pushed" out directly without doing his dissipation work
Not sure how to fix that, but only happens at low fan speeds as far i remember

When the fan enters in high speeds ranges is when it starts working fine and the fan stops "sucking" air from the back

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

I took for your advice and i taped the capacitors with Kapton tape.

Now the console running very good and i played God Of War 3 for like 20 mins and run great.

Now i am worried from another issue, when i was testing the console, it was without the housing to check before i close it for sure.
the other issue is the heat on the PSU (power supply) it was very hot when i was playing, since its on the top of the (CPU or GPU i am not sure :P).
i checked the air flow from behind of the console, it was kick cold air and PSU is very hot, also the AC it was on and it was hitting directly on the console.

why the heat is trapped only at PSU ? is that mean the heatsink is not transferring the heat from CPU/GPU since the air coming from behind is cold ?
any suggestions ? modding the console to kick that heat ?

Yes, the PSU design is a bit to be desired, they'll run hot, but not as hot as the ZSSR5194A found in the early models, thoes run at a blistering 70°Cs,combined with it being a all metal model, plus touching the EMI Sheild is a bit of a disaster.

The APS-231 its a great candidate for a Phat PSU replacement, assuming you have a compatible model, thoes being the CECHA/B/C/E/G.

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[Gehirnstaub]

Oh boy thats some high quality tutorial. Too bad that I can't do things like this by my own. I'm still depressed that my DECHA00A has YLOD :-(

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Oh boy thats some high quality tutorial. Too bad that I can't do things like this by my own. I'm still depressed that my DECHA00A has YLOD :-(

I thought thoes systems were Bulletproof, guess my leads were wrong [emoji848]

But for a DECHA00A I would bite the bullet, its a special system worth getting it to run again.

Why don't you ask a friend whom might be good at soldering? Perhaps someone can help you with your needs,worth checking. [emoji6]

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[SEGA-CD]

Any thoughts on this comment I found on Reddit, Naked_Snake1995? It's in reference to your original post on this thread as well as the response to your fix by PS3 Specialist.

Yes. This has been pissing me off for awhile, because it's more butchered crap that I'll have to deal with later, and I just generally hate misinformation of any kind - so here goes...
I'll break it down as fast as possible. Here are my credentials if it matters: I'm squeept, I have a degree in CpE, and I fix video game systems for a living. For the matter at hand, I did about 100 fat PS3 systems in the last year, and I generally reball half a dozen various systems a week.
Everything in the original article where the guy "discovered" it is nonsense. I mean, he thinks that reballing only works because you heated up the capacitors and that took them back to their original capacity. While capacitance does change depending on temperature, this gentleman thinks that EVEN AFTER IT COOLS BACK DOWN that the capacitance has changed. You can even see on that forum where he keeps engaging with people and swearing they must be doing something wrong after their system only worked for a few days after the replacement. Also, Louis Rossman is a dipshit, and is laughed at when he's brought up on discussion forums with actual engineers. He's a fun youtube personality, I'm pleased he's raised awareness about some industry issues, and he can read a schematic like a boss, but his in-depth analysis of things like "reballing is bullshit" is almost always laughably ill informed.
Okay, so most shit with a BGA package has issues especially since they stopped using lead solder. Lead free is more brittle, so it can form stress cracks easier after repeated heat cycling. It forms "tin whiskers" which can cause shorts. It has a harder time flowing and needs a more sterile environment (nitrogen or argon or some other inert gas) when done on production scale so they even come straight from the factory with various defects that lead to stress cracks down the line. The chips themselves also have problems. They're super hot and they break down from thermal stress and electromigration. Flip-chips, like in the PS3, have an extra set of internal BGA connections between the die and the substrate - called "bumps" - which compound all of the previous problems, essentially a second set of failure points except these ones are not repairable.
The issue with a lot of people thinking that reballing doesn't work is because, well, they're idiots. They didn't diagnose the issue properly in the first place, or they're conflating the useless practice of reflowing with actually reballing a chip. Or they're terrible at what they do and they're using terrible equipment. There are "technicians" using pancake griddles and a heatgun for F%$#'s sake. I don't have an x-ray machine because they cost more than my house, but you can still do plenty of basic diagnostics to figure things out. Yet tons of people just reball shit just fucking cause. Louis is obviously right about this: reballing a dead chip doesn't bring it back to life magically. But if you've diagnosed it correctly as a BGA defect, then....well, it works.
Which brings us to "why is my system working after I replaced the TOKIN caps?" - because you took it apart and put it back together. Seriously. With BGA defects, we're talking microns. Just fiddling around with the board, heating it up, shifting things around, tightening or loosening of various screws, and suddenly you've shifted the broken connection back in place. So it works for a little bit. Then you play with it and heats up and cools down a few dozen times and now it doesn't work again.
Sound familiar? Like people that baked their Xbox 360 in the oven at a temperature far below what is required to melt solder? Yep. Works for a week until the board warps back a bit.
Still sounds familiar? Like people that think changing the thermal paste or adding some washers will fix their GPU? They clamped it down tighter when they reassembled. Works for a week until the board warps back a bit.
I have systems that don't work after reballing (because there is a LOT of guesswork involved when you don't have the manufacturer support or an x-ray machine), so I've ripped a handful of TOKINs off of them after to investigate over the past year or two since I first heard this. Every single one has tested perfectly within tolerance for capacity and ESR. I think this rumor started because TOKIN caps have actually caught fire pretty frequently in some brands of laptops, so the guys at the badcaps forum now lose their shit if they see them in any other device.
edit: And the "heat test" is bullshit. You heated up the board after tearing it down - it flexed a little and made contact again temporarily. That doesn't tell you anything.
Let me put it in these terms... The Xbox 360 has BGA defects, the PS4 has BGA defects, the XBox One has BGA defects, desktop graphics cards have BGA defects, laptop chipsets have BGA defects, TV sets have BGA defects...... but I'm supposed to believe that the PS3 is a special case immune to BGA issues and it's just those wacky caps?
I have half a dozen backwards compatible PS3 sitting here that need a reball. I'll try to remember to take pictures when I lift the GPU off, because you can usually see oxidized pads where there were stress cracks. I will literally show you the BGA defect. I can also take pictures of my cap meter plowing through a handful of perfectly in spec TOKINs. I have a feeling, though, that none of that will change anyone's mind.

 

[Chino Moreno]

Well mine worked to add to the validity. To answer my own question a few posts back, there is continuity, and both negative and positive sides are grounded after removing the 3 tokins on the slim. I dont know why that is.

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[Naked_Snake1995]

Any thoughts on this comment I found on Reddit, Naked_Snake1995? It's in reference to your original post on this thread as well as the response to your fix by PS3 Specialist.

I see i am famous now on Reddit as well? [emoji23]

But on a serious note, i clearly see the lack of testing and knowledge evolved in his response, which clearly doesn't live up to his reputation, but unlike him, i won't back-fire to him by cursing,ill just respond to your post, as clearly and polite as possible.

Stating that the BGA package its the defective, its quite harsh, he doesn't even know if the Grid is good or not to begin with, also he states the YLOD its provoked by a dead GPU Chip, which its totally false, unless you have Artifacts or GLOD, RSX Replacement its totally unnecessary.

I like how his lack of knowledge, reflects on his answer, by contradicting my "Why the TOKINs work under heat" by stating it only works because you disassembled the unit, and then put it back on, is it now? Last time i disassembled a unit, without changing anything, and put it back on it didn't alter a single thing, the machine was dead as the way it came, so more signs of lack of proper self-knowledge.

He is just mad because someone thinks that reballing is the way to go, and then someone comes with a proper fix, and the community doesn't accept it, which is normal, but by judging by his badly constructed post, he its just another blind bat for me, and i don't blame him, let him be that way. [emoji106]

I always make my Tutorials, with extensive research, and proper testing, so no mistakes or misinformation is spread, for people who think outside the box, and want to use my guide, as a repair, they're are more than free to do so, but for whom still believe that reballing is the way to go, i hope you have deep pockets, to cover a machine that its going to die anyway. [emoji106]

Associating the XBOX360 Tower Trick to the PS3 its nothing but non-sense, the XBOX360 indeed had a BGA Issue, whereas the PS3 didn't, he clearly lacks the proper research on both machines.

Also posting on Reddit is usually not the best place, dont bring a wise man to a room of sheeps, because eventually he'll become a sheep itself. [emoji106]

By the way did some research on him, apparently he is the biggest Thief in the industry, reballing and stealing others peoples consoles, or they return inoperational, not to mention he charges 200$ plus to reball a machine, yep PS3 Specialist alright. [emoji1787]

He is simply pissed, because he spent tons of money on Reworking stations, and now a regular guy comes in, proving everyone wrong about reballing, making him loose is clientele. [emoji57]

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