PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

A thing i have to lose its a Backwards Compatible Board, which trust me, in this cursed county they are bloody expensive, 200€ a pop, so this is why id rather test it on another NEC Based Model, such as the G Model, its the closest to a COK-002 Board. [emoji23]

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why would u lose it? unless theres another issue with the console thats not related to the tonkin caps u shouldn't have to worry. wheres ur confidence man? haha. Im gonna dive straight into the harder to find consoles, not worth trying on the other G,H,K,J models, even if u fix them they are worth nothing so its kinda pointless i think.
 
why would u lose it? unless theres another issue with the console thats not related to the tonkin caps u shouldn't have to worry. wheres ur confidence man? haha. Im gonna dive straight into the harder to find consoles, not worth trying on the other G,H,K,J models, even if u fix them they are worth nothing so its kinda pointless i think.
Not really mate, if you fix a NEC System by replacing all of the Capacitors, you'll guarantee yourself to repair all of the NEC Bases Systems.

Not going to lie, i understand the G Models and above have no real value in the market, that's true, this is why i prefer to thinker with one for the full replacement, if anything goes wrong or that thing burns in flames, no big deal, this Backwards Compatible model holds a special place in my heart, even after i wrote this guide, about the repair, i was still sweating b@lls to try on it, eventually got the guts to replace them, and after i knew it was working the way it should, ive decide I would never touch it again, as this is my 9th 60Gb, the other ones failed on me miserably, 2 of them were reballed systems, this was before i knew about this NEC Issue, dont need to go to the 10th [emoji23]

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@Naked_Snake1995
I have to chime in to ask, why does it matter if your system function or not if you're not going to use it? If iit was me I'd be dying to know if the board was really repaired or not.

Currently waiting for a YLOD CECHA06 to arrive any day now and I'm going to hold my breath and replace the top NECs. I'll be reporting back here!
 
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@Naked_Snake1995
I have to shim in to ask, why does it matter if your system function or not if you're not going to use it? If iit was me I'd be dying to know if the board was really repaired or not.

Currently waiting for a YLOD CECHA06 to arrive any day now and I'm going to hold my breathsand replace the top NECs. I'll be reporting back here!
Actually my 60Gb runs flawlessly, already tortured it with PlayStation/PlayStation2 and PlayStation3, but i use the system mostly for PlayStation and PlayStation2, just for the Upscaling, one thing i didn't test it out its GT6 and TLoU after i made the repair on the CELL side, the only reason why I don't proceed further with this model, are because of two reasons, hard to come-by models, rarity and it already works flawlessly for me, so i won't touch it anymore besides thermal paste replacement, for the torturing, ill stick to other models, like the G or any Phat model for that matter,even with YLOD here these 60Gb fetch a high price,so its no use for me to keep a paperweight that its working fine. [emoji23]

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Not really mate, if you fix a NEC System by replacing all of the Capacitors, you'll guarantee yourself to repair all of the NEC Bases Systems.

Not going to lie, i understand the G Models and above have no real value in the market, that's true, this is why i prefer to thinker with one for the full replacement, if anything goes wrong or that thing burns in flames, no big deal, this Backwards Compatible model holds a special place in my heart, even after i wrote this guide, about the repair, i was still sweating b@lls to try on it, eventually got the guts to replace them, and after i knew it was working the way it should, ive decide I would never touch it again, as this is my 9th 60Gb, the other ones failed on me miserably, 2 of them were reballed systems, this was before i knew about this NEC Issue, dont need to go to the 10th [emoji23]

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na i understand where ur coming from if ur not in the position to get ur hands on consoles easy enough it can be daunting, lucky i dont have that sentimental attachment as such these days haha. but at the end of the day these are an electronic equipment so they will fail at some point, the majority of the main parts u need u cant buy anymore so once their gone thats it.

well we might still be a long way away to say its a guarantee yet TBH these would need extensive testing and unfortunately it will take a few years b4 we can actually confirm they are a fix if this is the case. only reason i say this is coz no one is actually removing the old caps to test them one by one to know for sure but being a trail and error fix at this stage its all we got to work off atm. hardest thing is making sure clients keep in contact so u can keep full track of the repairs so it can take a while b4 u get those desired results u want to hear.
 
na i understand where ur coming from if ur not in the position to get ur hands on consoles easy enough it can be daunting, lucky i dont have that sentimental attachment as such these days haha. but at the end of the day these are an electronic equipment so they will fail at some point, the majority of the main parts u need u cant buy anymore so once their gone thats it.

well we might still be a long way away to say its a guarantee yet TBH these would need extensive testing and unfortunately it will take a few years b4 we can actually confirm they are a fix if this is the case. only reason i say this is coz no one is actually removing the old caps to test them one by one to know for sure but being a trail and error fix at this stage its all we got to work off atm. hardest thing is making sure clients keep in contact so u can keep full track of the repairs so it can take a while b4 u get those desired results u want to hear.
True that, ill have to agree with your statement, availability for the PlayStation3 is not an issue, the Backwards Compatible model are the issue, since they are hard to find and fetch high, if i was a US resident that wouldn't be a problem, unfortunately Europe its quite lacking behind.

I am currently on the search for a CECHA or B model to my collection as well, it could be very well a YLOD system, which i don't mind trying to do the same,but thats later on, at the moment my schedule its loaded with Design works, so i don't have the time to thinker with a PlayStation3 at the moment.

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unfortunately Europe its quite lacking behind.

3 > 60GB BC PS3's for £80 each incl. 6 month warrenty, + 1 x CECHA US import for £95 w/ 6 month warrenty, 1x CECHB £90 w/ 6 month warrenty..... all come with offical controllers not fake crap all in a shop near me in the UK.

You live in the wrong country to get your hands PS3's cheap mate....
 
3 > 60GB BC PS3's for £80 each incl. 6 month warrenty, + 1 x CECHA US import for £95 w/ 6 month warrenty, 1x CECHB £90 w/ 6 month warrenty..... all come with offical controllers not fake crap all in a shop near me in the UK.

You live in the wrong country to get your hands PS3's cheap mate....
True that mate, last time a CECHA was listed here, was 200 quid for it, no games or extras, CECHCs almost fetch the same, maybe 50 quid less, guess Portugal isn't a good business place, trust me, they suck you dry, if they sell you a Backwards Compatible PS3,luckily i payed 50 for mine, and still was a bit high fetched though. [emoji23]

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My response earlier was in your defense buddy and the interesting research this thread has spawned. That Ps3 specialist dude is a joke. I think both repairs are good for the ps3 as it stands, but the TOKIN replacement looks to be the better of the two. That's why I said I'm eager to see reports of this fix in a year and so on and so forth.
 
Okay so rather than actually respond to any of the flaws in his arguments that I pointed out he just decided to ignore me so I guess I'll just continue pointing out more issues in your """""professional"""" rebuttal. As stated before I don't have a dog in this fight, I am not an authority in electronics repair and would just like know what can be done to keep these things alive and kicking. Things in bold are direct quotes from your posts anything else in quotations are not.

1. "I have no vested interest in reballing"
Thank you for helpfully linking your instagram page, I know this may seem unrelated but the posts on it directly contradict that original quote as we can see that not only do you own a BGA rework station (meaning its significant enough that you would make a major purchase for the purpose of being able to perform reballing work yourself) but that a significant portion of your posts about reballing seem to be related to either the PS3 or the PS4, including this post where you claim you "don't even bother reballing CECHA01 anymore." because "If a reflow doesn't work, they go in the bin." What a very professional and scientific method to determining causes of failure
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdddcf_lCNY/
1b. "I had less than 10 returns for any reason out of the last 100 fat boys I've reballed."
A minimum of 100 PS3 fats doesn't exactly seem like a small number especially enough to claim you "have no vested interest"
2b. https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj71An6lwLE/ "Another 100 PS3 systems in the books. And I forgot to order more blades until I was empty. Oops." clearly you don't do much work on PS3's I guess, just enough for the number to be in the hundreds

2. "EVERY device with ANY BGA package that gets hot will eventually form stress cracks" and "The PS3 has BGA connections, therefore that study applies to the PS3. It's a purely mechanical problem, the circuit surrounding it doesn't matter.
At no point has anyone here denied this claim, the issue with your assertion that this is the cause of the YLOD error is that even based on the studies you shared this should be a monumentally big issue affecting literally every PC, console, etc that manages to reach above 70C. All electronics should fail within 500 temperature cycles, according to that study it could be as low as 243 temp cycles and as you say "The PS3 has 10 times that amount on the RSX, on a bigger package which can flex even more." meaning the failure rate should actually be even faster than the 243 in that study.
I can just as easily find studies showing "No failures after 3000 cycles between -40°C and 125°C"
https://energiforskmedia.blob.core.windows.net/media/22657/2-brinkfeldt-presentation.pdf

I can just as easily find studies showing "No failures after 3000 cycles between -40°C and 125°C"
https://energiforskmedia.blob.core.windows.net/media/22657/2-brinkfeldt-presentation.pdf

3. "I can see the tell tale signs of either stress cracks, a "head in pillow" defect, or a "non-wet" defect"
The Head in pillow defects that you posted seem to be related to failures that happen direct from the factory, the study has nothing to do with the BGA stress cracking related to temp cycles which is what you keep asserting. The title of the study is even called "Defects and Mitigation through Assembly Process Modifications and Control" here's an excerpt from the opening paragraph that makes this more clear "Often these insufficient or intermittent solder joint defects go undetected during manufacturing despite inspection with conventional X-ray systems. They also are insidious reliability defects that often escape the normal testing procedures and fail at the end user site."

4. Your reasoning for why the slims stopped failing is that "Better designs, lower TDP, better manufacturing methods. It's kind of expected that they learn from their mistakes and cut down on manufacturing defects that lead to premature failure."
A. "Better designs" The slims have the same BGA layout as the fats do for both the CELL and the RSX, they also have smaller heatsinks with fewer heatpipes and a smaller surface area which ties neatly into the next point.
B. "lower TDP" The slims kept failing until the tokins were removed in the 21XX revision the TDP drop between the 2 of them is also only 20-25W. The PS4 pro, Xbox One X and essentially all other high end GPUs also have much higher TDPs than the original CECHA/B/C/E models which at their peak only draw about 230W across both chips while high end GPUs and consoles with their APUs pack all that wattage into a single die not the 2 found in the PS3/360
C. "better manufacturing methods" If the manufacturing methods were put into place in the slim revision then why are you still reballing ps4's which began production 4 years after the original slims? Did sony just happen to forget that it was the only major issue killing their consoles prematurely? Did they lose the formula to the better solder alloy?

5. "Why did they switch from a Samsung flash to a Macronix? They made a new device, they pick new parts."
I agree that their change of components doesn't necessarily imply the old ones were all failing but the more logical reason to this isn't so flippant. The tantalum caps used in the slims are smaller which given that the purpose of the slim is to make it well, slim, makes more sense.

6. "A lower temperature means a longer life - the "rule of 10s" regarding temperatures is generally that a MTBF is doubled for each 10C drop. So, we're talking THOUSANDS of heat cycles."
You didn't actually provide any evidence for this claim or really any of your claims that you're some kind of authority on the subject of BGAs.
I would still be willing to believe this if you didn't completely ignore the fact that although the PS3 doesn't reach 100C, many high end PC components DO, and quite frequently. It's extremely common for things like gaming laptops, macbooks, and workstation GPUs to reach 95-100C under load so logically rather than the "THOUSANDS" you claim the PS3 should withstand since it only hits a mere 80C every one of those high end or poorly cooled devices should be toast after less than a year of use.

7. You claim that you don't repair slims because "I don't buy Slims since the profit margin sucks, so I don't know anything about them."
https://www.instagram.com/p/BROwWs4FVyk/
As we can see here you're repairing a DS lite which from what I can see in the sold listings page on ebay go for only $20. But that's fine since you claim you're "not in it for the money." However then your justification for not knowing anything about slims doesnt add up. It seems to me like the more likely scenario is that you don't know how to fix them and after a few reballings didn't get you anywhere you just gave up. Oh wait, heres a picture of yours https://www.instagram.com/p/BIWQF92jSCE/ with a stack of 8 superslims "Doin' work #consolerepair"

You really love posting actual studies with actual evidence and I really do appreciate that, but aside from a photo of a bachelors degree in computer engineering from 2006 on your ebay page you haven't presented any professional credentials to support the idea that you can interpret these studies in any meaningful way, for all we know you could have focused on cryptography during your university program. We can also see by the posts on your Instagram page that you run your entire business out of what looks like your living room, garage, and basement. The brand of your reballing station seems to just be some random cheap Chinese brand that sells on sites like alibaba.
It doesn't exactly surprise me when your $800 rework station catches fire https://www.instagram.com/p/BPqHskpjgwK/
If you were a professional you wouln't be buying from a company that uses literal comicsans on their website (http://www.easybga.com/en/achi-hr56...cal-alignment-bga-repair-station_l66_p14.html).
That makeshift fume hood seemingly constructed from saranwrap, scrap metal, and 2x4s doesn't seem very healthy by the way
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq5YOLWnfiz/

Heres some video proof that his reballing station and workbench are literally inside his home.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjKjxPolj-6/

Lastly, why do you have a photo on your instagram of you with a torn off tokin saying "The TOKIN massacre is finished. Long live tantalum"?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Blsnw_Hl7Of/

Given you claim you're 35 on your instagram account if/when you do return I would expect a more adult response than the ones you've given so far. Please also note that I have not insulted or personally attacked you in any way. Everything surrounding the PS3specialist guy suggests he's a scammer even on his own youtube videos you've got people asking "bro I sent you my console and I haven't heard from you in weeks" so I am interested to know how much you charge for a reball and where I can purchase that service.
OMG!!! That was some brutal beat down!

You deserve a medal
 
na i understand where ur coming from if ur not in the position to get ur hands on consoles easy enough it can be daunting, lucky i dont have that sentimental attachment as such these days haha. but at the end of the day these are an electronic equipment so they will fail at some point, the majority of the main parts u need u cant buy anymore so once their gone thats it.

well we might still be a long way away to say its a guarantee yet TBH these would need extensive testing and unfortunately it will take a few years b4 we can actually confirm they are a fix if this is the case. only reason i say this is coz no one is actually removing the old caps to test them one by one to know for sure but being a trail and error fix at this stage its all we got to work off atm. hardest thing is making sure clients keep in contact so u can keep full track of the repairs so it can take a while b4 u get those desired results u want to hear.
So ive got some juicy news, that might be of intrest for you all, regarding the NEC replacement.

On behalf of the user @wrx884 since his motivation was crucial to solidify this replacement, ive decided to test Gran Turismo 6 Vanilla Version 1.00 "No Patches", this title is notorious for freezing and crashing all the NEC based Systems.

This test was previously preformed also on a CECH-C04 model in 2016, with the Original NECs, the unit had an APS-231 PSU and a 19 Blade NMB-MAT Fan, the unit would shut-off itself during the following sequences: Get to know the Game/Beginners Race "Honda Fit", the title wouldn´t hold more than 5/7 min in game, no overheating message was displayed, all the other titles would run fine, without any issue, keep in mind that Changing the Fan or PSU, had no affect on the gameplay, it would crash regardless.

Now jumping to today, the current test was preformed also on a CECH-C04 Model, only with 6 Original NECs,and 2 Tantalum Replacement on the RSX/CELL "total of 4 per chip", the unit retains a 19 Blade NMB-MAT Fan, not from the previous unit, and a OEM APS-227 PSU, the proceeding test, took 30 min in gameplay, the unit didn´t shutoff, displayed artifacting or frameskipping, completed the following sequences: Get to know the Game/Beginners Race "Honda Fit", total runtime of 32 min and 43 sec, and played further without any issues.

The following test was a success, the unit didnt suffer from RSX under-feed, Gran Turismo 6 is playable after the Tantalum Replacement, the proceeding test will be The Last Of Us,which shutdown itself, at the 7/10 min mark "only with RSX Tantalum replacement".

DSC_0226.JPG
 
So ive got some juicy news, that might be of intrest for you all, regarding the NEC replacement.

On behalf of the user @wrx884 since his motivation was crucial to solidify this replacement, ive decided to test Gran Turismo 6 Vanilla Version 1.00 "No Patches", this title is notorious for freezing and crashing all the NEC based Systems.
]

nice work man glad i was able to get those nerves settled to run some tests, im sure it will restore more confidence for others to give it a go now, i bet u had a sigh of relief after that haha.
 
nice work man glad i was able to get those nerves settled to run some tests, im sure it will restore more confidence for others to give it a go now, i bet u had a sigh of relief after that haha.
The tests weren't the problem, the problem is wetter the NEC Replacement would hold with GT6 or not, each minute was a nerve rack, but glad this links the NECs to the Gran Turismo 6 Crashing on the older Models.

You can see reports from 2013 and 2015 of people complaining about the Game Crashing on all Phat units, assuming the Game Overheated the machine, and made it crash, guess that was wrong too, GT6 its a RSX demanding game, and if the RSX doesn't pull enough juice, the system crashes on his entirety, not to mention it runs on a toasty 72°Cs, something even GT5 wouldn't achieve.

Ill see if i get some free time tonight, ill jump straight to the final test, the Goliath of all PlayStation3s, TLoU, the test will be the same 30 min of gameplay, and mark if the system crashes, and if it has any link with the NECs themselfs.

Remember, unlike GT6, TLoU, its a heavy CELL demanding title, previous test, with only a RSX NEC Replacement didn't alter anything, the System would crash regardless, now with the CELL replaced as well, its time to run another test.

Report suggests, TLoU has a CELL SPE problem on the early Phat models, i can 99% confirm, that's not the case, a user i can't remember the name, tested both GT6 and TLoU on a Original Japanese CECHA00 60Gb,with Original NECs, and reported no issue, but keep in mind,the console was barely used, he bought it in almost mint condition, Japanese people tend to preserve they're consoles with the upmost care, this reflects in this test, in US and Europe, its a question of luck, wetter thr owner barely used it or abused it.

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For anyone interested about after fixing my ps3 by replacing the capacitors just only one.
i don't like to be that person who just taking what he want from others and not give at least just information.

I was playing the following:
- God of war3 ( play it for like 2-3 hours daily until i beat it)
- Metal Gear rising ( play it like 2 hours only)
- Journey (finished the game in one set, i dont remember how many hours it took me)
- Gran Turismo 6 ( i played for 1.5 hour non stop )
- asura's wrath ( played it for 1 hour )

with all those games played, until now there is no issue whats so ever, i just post this for anyone want to know how is the console is after fixing the capacitors.
My next target to test is TLOU as @Naked_Snake1995 suggusting.
GT6.jpg


i forgot to ask, how to show temp information when you play in the game ?
 
@AluCarD3939 so what was the systom of your YLOD before changing the NECs, YLOD during boot attempt or during gameplay?

My system was YLOD and not booting until i spam the power button for like 7-10 mins non stop.
Then when i play a game, some times randomly will shutdown, also if i left the console cool down for like 20 min or longer, i need to
Spam the power button again until it works.
Now after i replaced the capacitor only in one NEC tokin, the console work from the first run and there is no random shutdown.

001.jpg


005.jpg
 
Why i believed in this fix in the first place before trying anything else in fixing, here is small story:
First i am working in the IT field and when i start this carrier i was computer technician, you know fix PC and laptops.
After time i start noticing some PCs will act very weird and random crashes happen even if you try to install new OS or change the hard disk.
When i check on the mother board i sometimes find blown capacitors in the motherboard, when i discovered about the blown capacitors
i start reading about what is the job of this part for the pc and how it works.
Then i start to learning about soldering and i bought the tools i need to practice and fix this blown capacitors in the motherboards.
When i repair the motherboard by replacing the capacitor for like less than 1$, all symptoms and weird crashes will gone.
I was the only one in my area that fixes the motherboard for many costumers, other shops will always tell to replace the motherboard :cower:.

the symptoms that i saw in PCs from the blown caps is like: no booting, blue screen of death, slow OS, errors show up randomly.

i stopped buying consoles since ps2 and changed to PC all of the time until recently my neighbor throw his ps3 CECHG03 between his apartment and mine,i was coming back from my parents house when saw the console on the ground, i took it and start to see if i can fix it or not.
The first issue was YLOD during booting,i need to spam the power button for 10 min until it run.
2nd problem was the disk drive was make noises when i turn on the console, i inserted a card inside it and pulled a disc, then i found out there was 2 discs stuck inside, one of those discs was sonic unleashed.
after that i start searching the internet about reballing and i was planing to do it but it did not convince what was in the internet.

Until i found this thread and i kept reading it everyday, since i got previous experience with capacitors, i knew this is will fix it for sure.
my console was like charging the caps when i spam the power button for like 10 mins until it works, thats what convinced me to replace the caps.
and now the console works perfectly
Note: when i found this console, the seal of the warranty was there not touched, i was the first one who opened it.


Sorry for the long wall of text.
 
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