PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

Yeah I started out wanting to try this fix for myself and bought 2x YLOD A models for about $40 ea. It didn't work for me and, as I did more research, I began to understand where the confusion was coming from. Somewhere along the way I ended up with 5x working A01's and 2x I killed. One 30xx I killed trying the RSX swap (I'm still learning).

I find that having a project, such as fixing consoles, is the best way to learn about electronics and engineering. It motivates me to learn the math and physics. Having a problem that forces me to watch videos and read technical documents looking for anything to helpful is easier when I have a clear application for that knowledge. And my research is targeted at only the most useful information. Instead of being bombarded in school with everything at once, with no clear application or goal to put the knowledge in context, I can take the fast track toward the goal, picking out the most useful information. I learn other stuff along the way that can be applied broadly elsewhere. I find I can remember that knowledge, since it was a fun and interesting to discover on my own. When I pick out a specific bit of information that can me figure out a mystery, it's an "a ha" moment! They're exciting and rewarding. It's just a better way to learn - Self directed education, at your own pace, doing what you enjoy. No deadlines, no exams, no pressure.

If you're not doing this for fun, stop now. Because the cost of education is greater than a new working console. I've spent around a thousand dollars over the last year in equipment I don't have room to store...lol! Seriously, it's becoming a problem! But education isn't free, whether you pay someone else to teach you or teach yourself, it'll cost you in time, money, and storage space. And if you're married...well, I guess the PC way to put it is...it'll take a supportive spouse! Just remember to reciprocate the favor when she decides to redecorate and enlist your help!
I agree! I'm what you consider a console collector, even tho my favorite platform is PC. I have opened almost every system I have. I have in total 17 consoles all working besides the one YLOD PS3 that I need to reflow. I have learned so much by just opening them and researching on the web.

I'm doing all this for pure fun and so far my most rewarding experience in taking apart and fixing is with the PS3. I know now with my eyes closed where every screw goes.

It's my escape and it makes me feel good when I get it right. Can't wait to get deeper into this and collect more E01's lol

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, A reball makes more sense. @dydel, even if the RSX is shot you could swap a good 65nm or 40nm RSX using the Frankenstein MOD Chip, So long as the motherboard is good. Problem is that no one is currently offering this service outside Indonesia. You'd have to learn to DIY or fly to Jakarta where repair shops do it for $50...I'm so envious!

I was trying to hint that I could have performed one or two swaps for those in need (perhaps not as professionally as a service shop would have done, but still), and nobody seemed interested. Well, in any case now I had to put all the equipment away. I am still receiving 2 modchips chips in the mail later on. If anybody in EU needs one, I can sell one and it will be shipped slightly faster than all the way from Indonesia I guess.
 
I considered taking you up on that offer, but decided I want to learn it eventually. The last failure discouraged me, so I'm taking a break to let the sting wear off. Destroying a 40nm RSX was deflating. I still need to get a MOD chip however, but I never recieved an answer form that gal on Fiver. Then I killed the 40nm RSX and was so pissed that I thought I was going to give up. So I haven't looked into sourcing it.
 
I considered taking you up on that offer, but decided I want to learn it eventually. The last failure discouraged me, so I'm taking a break to let the sting wear off. Destroying a 40nm RSX was deflating. I still need to get a MOD chip however, but I never recieved an answer form that gal on Fiver. Then I killed the 40nm RSX and was so pissed that I thought I was going to give up. So I haven't looked into sourcing it.

Well, let me know if you still need the modchip. Like I've said before, I can send it to whoever needs it first. But ofc you have the option of ordering straight from the designer as well. I am only imagening that it might travel faster from Finland to wherever...

You might also have better luck just ordering a 40nm from Aliexpress (I imagine they fail less, so chances of getting a good one are higher than with 90nm chips). That way you'd have the rsx that is ready to be slapped onto the board.
 
Alright, today I fixed a CECH-A01 PS3 with bad NEC Tokins for real. I'll nick name this one Karen. I originally was sent this system for just a delidding / thermal paste replacement. System ran perfectly fine and had no issues after 30 minutes of testing. An overheating PS3 shouldn't need more than 30 minutes to reveal itself, so on this system goes!

Owner gets the PS3 back and accuses me of killing it because the PS3 displays graphical artifacts randomly and then freezes during intense workloads. It won't YLOD, the display literally just freezes after glitching out. Anyways, I get the system sent back, scan for errors and see "A0801001" everywhere. I figured the NEC Tokins were probably the issue by this point, but I replaced all the VRM thermal pads first just to see if the issue would go away after that and it did not (I tested Crysis, which froze every time I got near a thick forest in game). When I press the power button after this, the system will hang for a few extra seconds and beep three times before finally shutting off.

I then soldered two SP-Caps alongside the NEC Tokins on the top side of the board (one on both the CPU and GPU side). The model number for these capacitors is EEF-LX0E331R4, and just to clarify, I only used these alongside the NEC Tokins, I would not use them as an actual replacement unless I was also using MLCC's.

Anyways, I booted up Crysis again and the game plays perfectly now. No issues regardless of how intense the graphics get. Based on the error code, I assume the NEC Tokins on the CPU side were the culprit, but I added a SP-Cap to the GPU side just to be safe.

I'll attach a photo of what my fix looks like... I soldered the positive side of my caps to the positive pad used by the NEC Tokins. The negative side is soldered after scraping the motherboard with an exacto knife till you see copper. I personally would have preferred replacing all NEC Tokins, but I mean hey this is cheaper and it works. Everyone is happy in the end.

I have a CECH-E which i've delidded lying around that has a similar issue to this system. This one actually gets the YLOD and shuts off during intense workloads, but idles perfectly fine. I look forward to seeing if the NEC Tokins are also faulty on that system.
 

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I left my functional but problematic (gives me YLOD on GPU intensive workloads) CECHC04 sitting for a year,
I attempted to turn it on and got straight YLOD,it couldn't boot.
I figured out that the capacitors are completely discharged and it took 8 attempts of turning it on to charge them for the machine to boot successfully.
Half a year before that i figured out that leaving a machine connected to the wall socket with the switch turned on will degrade the NEC Tokins even if you don't power on the machine (the capacitors won't drain if the machine is connected to the wall socket and the switch is on).

The conclusion:
So if the machine is sitting for a while - turning off the power switch will pause the degradation of the Tokins but will cause the capacitors to completely discharge.
 
Alright, today I fixed a CECH-A01 PS3 with bad NEC Tokins for real. I'll nick name this one Karen. I originally was sent this system for just a delidding / thermal paste replacement. System ran perfectly fine and had no issues after 30 minutes of testing. An overheating PS3 shouldn't need more than 30 minutes to reveal itself, so on this system goes!

Owner gets the PS3 back and accuses me of killing it because the PS3 displays graphical artifacts randomly and then freezes during intense workloads. It won't YLOD, the display literally just freezes after glitching out. Anyways, I get the system sent back, scan for errors and see "A0801001" everywhere. I figured the NEC Tokins were probably the issue by this point, but I replaced all the VRM thermal pads first just to see if the issue would go away after that and it did not (I tested Crysis, which froze every time I got near a thick forest in game). When I press the power button after this, the system will hang for a few extra seconds and beep three times before finally shutting off.

I then soldered two SP-Caps alongside the NEC Tokins on the top side of the board (one on both the CPU and GPU side). The model number for these capacitors is EEF-LX0E331R4, and just to clarify, I only used these alongside the NEC Tokins, I would not use them as an actual replacement unless I was also using MLCC's.

Anyways, I booted up Crysis again and the game plays perfectly now. No issues regardless of how intense the graphics get. Based on the error code, I assume the NEC Tokins on the CPU side were the culprit, but I added a SP-Cap to the GPU side just to be safe.

I'll attach a photo of what my fix looks like... I soldered the positive side of my caps to the positive pad used by the NEC Tokins. The negative side is soldered after scraping the motherboard with an exacto knife till you see copper. I personally would have preferred replacing all NEC Tokins, but I mean hey this is cheaper and it works. Everyone is happy in the end.

I have a CECH-E which i've delidded lying around that has a similar issue to this system. This one actually gets the YLOD and shuts off during intense workloads, but idles perfectly fine. I look forward to seeing if the NEC Tokins are also faulty on that system.
Nice, clean work! I like the writeup and details! Thanks for providing a console identifier (Karen)! Diagnosis based upon SYSCON codes and console behavior, good job!

The only thing I would like to have seen is an image of the CPU/RSX Noise on an oscilloscope. $350 is an expensive tool, I know, but if you're going to do this as a service then you should make the investment. It'll cover your butt when customers claim you bunked their console. The reason I 'd like to see the scope images isn't just to verify the noise and reduction after the AlPol caps, but to also get a sense of what that noise looks like for a console hinging on the edge. As I noted in my experiments with PS3#7 there is a zone where the scope looks okay, but it still throws 1002 errors (mine had RSX TOKINs with issues). And since yours was having 1001 errors, I would have been especially curious, because I suspected CPU tokins could cause that error, but couldn't prove it. @squeept was seeing 1001s filling up the errlog when he was testing it. Then an RSX tokin was damaged in shipping and all I could verify were 1002s. So have been wondering about those 1001s ever since. @Pacorretaco noted they can occur when you flip the PWR rocker off, like when the console freezes and you have to hard reset. So I'm sure he'll be quick to point that out. It's the one unknown in your analysis.

Nice job though. I'll add "Karen" it to my spread sheet!
 
I left my functional but problematic (gives me YLOD on GPU intensive workloads) CECHC04 sitting for a year,
I attempted to turn it on and got straight YLOD,it couldn't boot.
I figured out that the capacitors are completely discharged and it took 8 attempts of turning it on to charge them for the machine to boot successfully.
Half a year before that i figured out that leaving a machine connected to the wall socket with the switch turned on will degrade the NEC Tokins even if you don't power on the machine (the capacitors won't drain if the machine is connected to the wall socket and the switch is on).

The conclusion:
So if the machine is sitting for a while - turning off the power switch will pause the degradation of the Tokins but will cause the capacitors to completely discharge.
The NEC/TOKINS are tied to GND at all times. They discharge the moment the console PWRs off. I verified this using an oscilloscope.
 
Nice, clean work! I like the writeup and details! Thanks for providing a console identifier (Karen)! Diagnosis based upon SYSCON codes and console behavior, good job!

The only thing I would like to have seen is an image of the CPU/RSX Noise on an oscilloscope. $350 is an expensive tool, I know, but if you're going to do this as a service then you should make the investment. It'll cover your butt when customers claim you bunked their console. The reason I 'd like to see the scope images isn't just to verify the noise and reduction after the AlPol caps, but to also get a sense of what that noise looks like for a console hinging on the edge. As I noted in my experiments with PS3#7 there is a zone where the scope looks okay, but it still throws 1002 errors (mine had RSX TOKINs with issues). And since yours was having 1001 errors, I would have been especially curious, because I suspected CPU tokins could cause that error, but couldn't prove it. @squeept was seeing 1001s filling up the errlog when he was testing it. Then an RSX tokin was damaged in shipping and all I could verify were 1002s. So have been wondering about those 1001s ever since. @Pacorretaco noted they can occur when you flip the PWR rocker off, like when the console freezes and you have to hard reset. So I'm sure he'll be quick to point that out. It's the one unknown in your analysis.

Nice job though. I'll add "Karen" it to my spread sheet!

You are very welcome, and i'll definitely look into investing in a scope in the future. If another stimmy drops, i'll probably get one and ask the owner if i can do a little testing on Karen for the sake of science. If not, i'll keep an eye out for a similar behaving PS3 in the future. If my CECH-E is throwing 1001's then i already have a guinea pig for testing, will just need a scope.

This is just speculation, but i think Karen's specific 1001's were being generated at the very moment the PS3 beeps three times before finally shutting off. I've previously confirmed in the syscon thread that switching the power switch off suddenly does generate a 1001 error, so perhaps it was generating on Karen because the system detected an improper shutdown? The PS3 is in a frozen state when i press the power button so it probably forces itself to turn off resulting in that error. So I dont think the error is specifically tied to failing NEC Tokins, but can be a side effect. Again, just my own speculation.
 
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For those interested in how we found out the solution,big thanks to Fanhais!

So it looks like an aging capacitor about to meet it's end...
Good thing we are getting to the bottom of it :D
Thanks for Fanhais for being the first to bring the NEC TOKIN up.



It usually happens 5-30 minutes into the gameplay.
It might happen in a different game,it happens to me with Gran Turismo 5 and 6.

https://www.google.pt/search?biw=13...0j0i8i30k1.0.li40NzWuSb8#imgrc=AJ3Dv7CLRM42ZM:
search
the problem of your ps3 60gb is nec tokin capacitors you need to replace with tantalo capacitator
search
because they lost the power to maintain the cell or rsx ative so the ps3 shuts off with some games because these nec tokin are bad
I made a new drawing that i hope the tokin mafia will appreciate, it can be seen how the tokin syndicate works
VIC1cgi.png


In every tokin there are 2 capacitors, but every capacitor is connected in paralell with the capacitor of the other tokin next to it
This is why i was suggesting to simplify it this way:
dAoQT0t.jpg


I made more drawings in page 6 of this thread http://www.psx-place.com/threads/ce...-one-game-ylod-style.20826/page-9#post-144824
But that one was the most simple
How about puting a capacitor on every red+blue?:
View attachment 13801

Will it work?

And @Naked_Snake1995 did just like my idea above:
No these capacitors arent hard to repalce, you simply need to desolder the old NEC and replace them with 4 Tantalums for each NEC, i advise you to get 470uF at 2.5V,but 6.3V works as well, make sure they are rated not operational voltage :)

If you are unsure you can get the NECs off,solder the Tantalums in parallel, into they´re respective connection points, works as well, although ive removed mine completely, replace just one, or ask a professional to do it, if you are still afraid, dont forget to isolate it with electical tape :)

If you solder in parallel, the end result should be something like this.

View attachment 17914

Read these topics if you would like to read more:
https://www.psx-place.com/threads/cecha-ps3-ylod-saga.20826/
https://www.psx-place.com/threads/update-its-not-working-at-all-what-type-of-lod-is-this.25045/
 
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Reflowing and Reballing worked, but not for the reasons that was believed,which was the Lead-Free Solder causing the issue, the PlayStation3 with the Syscon fan usually has a max tolerance temperature around 75/78ºC at almost Stage 4 Fan Speed "more on the later models", and a Thermal Protection at 90ºCs, the problem is that in order for the Lead-Free Solder to crack or dislodge from the board on average you need 217ºC to get the chip off the board, the PlayStation3 inside, its almost at 75ºC to 80ºCs at the most, which is 138ºCs less than what you need in order to damage the solder-balls, Sony used the same Lead-Free aloy in all Generations of the PlayStation3, yet only the Revisions that are known for this kind of failure its the CECHA all the way to the CECH-2000 Slim Model, and why dont any other revision from CECH-2100 and upwards get the YLOD, if the same Lead-Free aloy is used? Did Sony removed the "feature? Its because of the newer Chipset Manufacture Process "Nm"? Is because the newer consoles heat less than they´re predecessors? The answer its neither of them, the Lead-Free Solder, the Overheating or Newer Manufacture Process,but rather a few SMD Capacitors manufactured by NEC "Formerly known as "NEC/TOKIN", which are responsible for the YLOD issue caused by the early PlayStation3 revisions.
This is not accurate,
Solder balls can break even at lower temperatures,
With enough thermal stress any material can break,With small amounts of thermal stress solder balls will take a long time before they break,even at 80ºC.
I actually happened to have a a PS3 with broken balls on the RSX,this caused me a Green Light of Death or GLOD.
A temporary solution was to apply physical pressure on the area where the RSX sits,it was good enough to boot but still some balls made poor contact or no contact at all - which caused instability that lead to graphical artifacts.

So the broken solder balls didn't cause a YLOD at all,but a GLOD instead.
 
Snake had a C04 with similar behavior as you described. I skimmed that thread but I'm probably confused by what you meant, since I didn't see a quote about your console specifically.
 
Snake had a C04 with similar behavior as you described.
For a start we are both confused :D
Quoting my reply describing the similar behavior to Snake's C04 would be helpful to clear up the confusion.
I skimmed that thread but I'm probably confused by what you meant, since I didn't see a quote about your console specifically.
1.I don't know the exact thread you are talking about
2.I was talking about this reply of mine:
I left my functional but problematic (gives me YLOD on GPU intensive workloads) CECHC04 sitting for a year,
I attempted to turn it on and got straight YLOD,it couldn't boot.
I figured out that the capacitors are completely discharged and it took 8 attempts of turning it on to charge them for the machine to boot successfully.
Half a year before that i figured out that leaving a machine connected to the wall socket with the switch turned on will degrade the NEC Tokins even if you don't power on the machine (the capacitors won't drain if the machine is connected to the wall socket and the switch is on).

The conclusion:
So if the machine is sitting for a while - turning off the power switch will pause the degradation of the Tokins but will cause the capacitors to completely discharge.

That's a black hole of confusion i tell you :D
 
Okay, so this is a new problem? You're not talking about the old threads you linked to? This C04 wasn't fixed originally in one of those threads?

I'll tell you the reason I'm asking. I was trying to find capacitor details and the first reported sucess date for my spreadsheet. I looked at your post history, but didn't see you talking about your console, besides the post you made above (which didn't include these details). Maybe, I should just ask you directly. What is the work history on the console?
 
Okay, so this is a new problem?
Not really.
You're not talking about the old threads you linked to?
I didn't talk about the old posts,but in the old posts i did talk about the problem of my console there.
This C04 wasn't fixed originally in one of those threads?
It wasn't.
What is the work history on the console?
I didn't even attempt to fix that problem,It's still there and it has progressed,
The work history of the console is not much - I just replace the thermal paste once a year and clean the dust every 3-4 months with compressed air.

But now i roughly understand what you were talking about,I have no clue if the console i referenced to was the original C04 of Snake.

I was trying to find capacitor details
The tantalum ones or the TOKINs?
The TOKINs are:
2.5V 1200uf (PS3 fat)
2.5V 1000uf (PS3 slim)

As for Tantalums:
i use 470 uf but i think for 330 uf can do the job,
solder on this marks the pole positive on the board

and the tantalum the marks are red Positive and blue negative/ground


and the first reported sucess date for my spreadsheet.
The first reported success within the community was reported by @Fanhais at November 5, 2018:
i had today one ps3 40gb and tried to run gt6 the result was shut down after 3 minutes of play lol and i opened ps3 and start to solder some Tantalus capacitors to see if the problem is software or hardware and for surprise the game didn't crash the system after put Tantalus capacitor so i say if you have an ps3 is shutting down with some games is nec tokin problem for sure because today i had the proof is hardware problem
 
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Haha...Language is fun.

I just read through the thread you linked and get where you're coming from now! Good read! Yeah, I had only read this thread (exhaustive process). So sounds like you shelved that unit. You said you planned to try the Tantalums in a few months, but never got around to it. I'm guessing you're interested in fixing up the console now?

Sounds like you've been out of the game for awhile. Here's the TL;DR. We have found that most YLOD are not due to tokins. The OPs situation is different. When it's only happening in intense games there is a much higher likelyhood that the tkons could be at fault. An oscilloscope can confirm bad tokins, but is expensive. Luckily another tool, the SYSCON itself can be used to dump an error log. These codes line up with a leaked PDF that indicates their meaning. That's where you should start. We have since identified the tokins error as 1002 (1001 may be related, perhaps not directly) and RSX problems that require reflow/reball as 3034. That is cheap and gives you an place to start. Might save you some money and time you could have wasted on tantalum when that wasn't your problem.
 
I just read through the thread you linked and get where you're coming from now! Good read! Yeah, I had only read this thread (exhaustive process).
:)
So sounds like you shelved that unit. You said you planned to try the Tantalums in a few months, but never got around to it. I'm guessing you're interested in fixing up the console now?
That's correct.
Sounds like you've been out of the game for awhile.
True :D
Here's the TL;DR. We have found that most YLOD are not due to tokins. The OPs situation is different. When it's only happening in intense games there is a much higher likelyhood that the tkons could be at fault. An oscilloscope can confirm bad tokins, but is expensive. Luckily another tool, the SYSCON itself can be used to dump an error log. These codes line up with a leaked PDF that indicates their meaning. That's where you should start. We have since identified the tokins error as 1002 (1001 may be related, perhaps not directly) and RSX problems that require reflow/reball as 3034. That is cheap and gives you an place to start. Might save you some money and time you could have wasted on tantalum when that wasn't your problem.
Thanks for the info,It still sounds like my issue is the TOKINs
It used to happen only in very intensive in-game scenarios,but now it happens in most games.
I will look into Syscon,It's very useful stuff so thank you!
 
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