RIP-Felix
Senior Member
That's a good idea, thanks. I'll try it. I think I have a few Computer Power supplies laying around here somewhere.
PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD
- Thread starter Naked_Snake1995
- Start date
@RIP-Felix Oof, I never had one explode from being used "externally" but I don't really run them for more than a few minutes. I verify basic operation of the bare boards then do any real stress testing "in situ" with the finished assembled console. The housing is aluminum, so I'd just drill some pilots and use self tapping screws to throw some Noctua fans on if I wanted to cool one off.
It was the frequency response of electrolytics that I thought would be the issue. They're typically pretty bad in the MHz range. Basically, my guess was that if they are functioning, they would explode from heat. And since nobody has reported them exploding, then they must not be doing anything.
I don't know how to work out the problem with good polymer or tantalum caps with wires, so I'd definitely be interested to see actual scope results from a piggyback with a good cap that is directly soldered to the board versus one with a wire. But I don't think anyone does that? So that's useless information? Just curiosity.
Well, that and actual TOKIN faults are rare enough that it's way more likely that there was an accidental mechanical reconnection from fidgeting with things.
It was the frequency response of electrolytics that I thought would be the issue. They're typically pretty bad in the MHz range. Basically, my guess was that if they are functioning, they would explode from heat. And since nobody has reported them exploding, then they must not be doing anything.
I don't know how to work out the problem with good polymer or tantalum caps with wires, so I'd definitely be interested to see actual scope results from a piggyback with a good cap that is directly soldered to the board versus one with a wire. But I don't think anyone does that? So that's useless information? Just curiosity.
Well, that and actual TOKIN faults are rare enough that it's way more likely that there was an accidental mechanical reconnection from fidgeting with things.
RIP-Felix
Senior Member
The scope looked about as bad before. I couldn't really tell a difference. The only thing it did was prevent a big voltage spike large enough to cause a YLOD.
I'll try shortening the wires as much as possable and see if that helps. I think I'm going to try a JST connector so I can easily try different combinations by plugging/unpluging.
EDIT
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hi
i have a question can i usea THT capacitors instead of The tantalum SMD ones? if the answer is "yes" what are the capacitors that i need to buy ? i ask this because in my country there is no place to buy smd electronics parts and ebay and aliexpress packages rarely(or never im in south america) arrives plz help
i have a question can i usea THT capacitors instead of The tantalum SMD ones? if the answer is "yes" what are the capacitors that i need to buy ? i ask this because in my country there is no place to buy smd electronics parts and ebay and aliexpress packages rarely(or never im in south america) arrives plz help
RIP-Felix
Senior Member
If you can find through hole capacitors with an ESR under 9mOhms, then yes. That's the main issue. They should be Aluminum Polyemer or Tantalum Polymer. And you want 12 of them so the combined ESR is low enought. You can't just get a single large cap.
I don't know how shipping works in SA, or why you'd have issues, but have you tried LCSC? They have the right SMD TaPol caps and ship from china. Maybe you'd have better luck buying direct from them.
I'll try to search THX
I found this idk if its fine searched all day cant find smd components just tht 330 uF 6.3V 
Felix, I was able to replace the tokins with tantalums on the side opposite to the Cell and RSX.
I'm very new to soldering, the job looked pretty ugly and it took a thousand years, but it looks like it is working!
The PS3 turns on first time and has not had a glitch since then.
Thanks to the amazing people on this forum.
They are
That means that i need to buy online wish me luck xd
Volodymyr malyshev
Member
Hello again, guys!
So, after reballing its fixed. No artifacts, no YLOD (played 3 hours of GOW3). Cold start is usual. Technican told me that tokins were ok with acceptable capacitance.
Volodymyr malyshev
Member
Good afternoon. Yes, it was the RSX
RIP-Felix
Senior Member
Is that litterally what he said? "capacitance?"
And who did you go with to have it done?
RIP-Felix
Senior Member
PS3 #15 - Part 3
(Tantalizing Parasites)
...Continued from Part 2 here.(Tantalizing Parasites)
Note: All these tests are on the CELL tokins, since that is confirmed to be the issue with this console.
= -3.2mVpp (Noise drop was noticeable, but very subtle)
= -3.2mVpp (Noise drop was noticeable, but very subtle)
= -3.2mVpp (Noise drop was noticeable, but very subtle)
= -5.2mVpp. The results are more noticeable, but not that impressive considering these 3 parasites added 4,500uF of additional Capacitance, nearly double! And yet the resulting ripple reduction is pathetic.
-1 Bad tokin caused an instant YLOD (A0 10 1001).
Discussion:
Ripple is noticeably worse, as expected for this test. The console would surely have had a YLOD, had I pushed it. I didn't. I just let it idle on XMB. Comparing the effect the parasites had was not particularly useful. They each resulted in similar ripple rejection. Each being around 50mVpp.
I know that the NOS is tokin is better than the AlPol caps, and the AVX caps have too high an ESR. But the scope doesn't show it. I didn't think it would. I would likely need a spectrum analyzer to see the phase noise. I suppose I could have tried to use the FFT calculation, but I didn't think of it before I continued on to the tantalizer tests. I doubt it would have yielded anything useful anyway.
I think the reason these tests lack luster is because the leads act like an antenna, coupling in common mode noise that's reducing the performance of the capacitors. They need a low impedance connection to perform to their full potential. So I'm not seeing them in connected in circuit fully. This method still introduces inductance that could be messing with the entire filter circuit and measurement.
So I decided to give up on this parasite business.
Discussion:
Ripple is noticeably worse, as expected for this test. The console would surely have had a YLOD, had I pushed it. I didn't. I just let it idle on XMB. Comparing the effect the parasites had was not particularly useful. They each resulted in similar ripple rejection. Each being around 50mVpp.
I know that the NOS is tokin is better than the AlPol caps, and the AVX caps have too high an ESR. But the scope doesn't show it. I didn't think it would. I would likely need a spectrum analyzer to see the phase noise. I suppose I could have tried to use the FFT calculation, but I didn't think of it before I continued on to the tantalizer tests. I doubt it would have yielded anything useful anyway.
I think the reason these tests lack luster is because the leads act like an antenna, coupling in common mode noise that's reducing the performance of the capacitors. They need a low impedance connection to perform to their full potential. So I'm not seeing them in connected in circuit fully. This method still introduces inductance that could be messing with the entire filter circuit and measurement.
So I decided to give up on this parasite business.
This time I got much better results..
The console is stable with that. Clearly a low impedance connection is much better. Far less noise, and better ripple rejection because of it. It easily cut the ripple out, no rectified sin wave. The Peak-Peak now is half what it was before, even with 3 OG tokins, +1 NOS, +3x 470uF AlPol, +3x 470uF AVX. The Parasites just plain suck.
I think @squeept is right. They are barely in circuit. The parasites were just enough to make the YLOD that occurred in the last of Us stop. But it was barely doing anything! It was just that the console was teetering on the edge. So any tiny bit was enough to make it stable. But that's by no means ideal! The Bad tokins needed to go and be replaced with a low impedance, ESL/ESR solution. The Tantalizer fit the bill.
I'm proud of the little fellas!
After that I delidded the RSX...
It wouldn't have been the end of the world, for me. I would have just replace the 90nm RSX with a 40nm RSX since I know how and this board is good, but this RSX has survived 400+ days and that's very good for a 90nm. I need a 90nm RSX for temperature comparisons anyway. So I really didn't want to ruin it. The RSX didn't actually need to be delidded. The temps were fine before, but I did want to try various Thermal pastes and possibly liquid metal. So I decided to delid it anyway. The only reason I'm including this mishap here is so people will think twice about delidding if they don't need to. I have sucessfully delided many RSX's now. But mistake happen.
I reassembled for stress and temp testing. Those haven't been the best...
![20220523_195012[1].jpg](https://www.psx-place.com/data/attachments/35/35937-72aa5cafe2aebdd4e03797b099b4cf88.jpg?hash=cqpcr-Kuvd "20220523_195012[1].jpg")
Contact on the Cell is good. But temps are still much higher than I think they should be. The fan should not need more than 35% in this test to keep the CPU at 68C. This weekend I'm going to try a few more ideas.
Perhaps the other 2 Tokins are bad. I can try replacing them with tantalizers and see if that helps. But first I want to try another HS to see if perhaps this one's heatpipes have crapped out or something. Still a mystery why this cell is so hot. It could be the cell, so if another HS doesn't change anything I'll know the cell is causing it. Then I'll try the remaining tokins to see if they are doing it. If not, I'll just have to accept this one runs hotter.
Not sure what to make of that yet.
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truemaster
Member
nice going felix
Yeah if you're a average person is not recommended, what gain do you get overall by just putting thermal paste over the ihs? down 2 degrees or soo?
although most people make the mistake of putting too little thermal paste on the RSX and CPU that has to cover the chips, not just the core
I say this from experience, before I had 60 60 adding "enough" and now I have 51 57 just because I put more thermal paste than before
Seems the graphite pad isn't so good, but why?
I did some tests on two delidded machines (CECHG and a CECHL), coollaboratory liquid ultra under the IHS for both chips, MX4 on top. Playing TLOU (with webman-mod auto-fan target temp set to 62°C) I've got 38% fan speed max. Opened both machines, applied some more of the liquid metal, but same results. Opened both machines again, CELL seems still fine, but the RSX got some black spots of patina, same on the ISH surface of the RSX (after only a week). At these oxide? spots the liquid metal doesn't stick anymore, so I removed the whole crap and used MX4 under/at the IHS. Surprising the fan keeps blowing at about 38%, even with MX4 for both chips. I've a feeling that the fan runs maybe one or two percent faster with MX4 at some points in game, but I think liquid metal isn't worth the hassle in case of the PS3.
Btw, removing liquid metal is very easy with some q-tips covered with 'break-cleaner' - seems the liquid metal hates break-cleaner, it turns immediately black and sticks to the q-tip
Yeah liquid metal is more of a pain than termal paste, you're gonna need to remplace It in 8 months atlest and the gain in nothingSeems the graphite pad isn't so good, but why?
I did some tests on two delidded machines (CECHG and a CECHL), coollaboratory liquid ultra under the IHS for both chips, MX4 on top. Playing TLOU (with webman-mod auto-fan target temp set to 62°C) I've got 38% fan speed max. Opened both machines, applied some more of the liquid metal, but same results. Opened both machines again, CELL seems still fine, but the RSX got some black spots of patina, same on the ISH surface of the RSX (after only a week). At these oxide? spots the liquid metal doesn't stick anymore, so I removed the whole crap and used MX4 under/at the IHS. Surprising the fan keeps blowing at about 38%, even with MX4 for both chips. I've a feeling that the fan runs maybe one or two percent faster with MX4 at some points in game, but I think liquid metal isn't worth the hassle in case of the PS3.
Btw, removing liquid metal is very easy with some q-tips covered with 'break-cleaner' - seems the liquid metal hates break-cleaner, it turns immediately black and sticks to the q-tip
I shower Thought I got is: wat if you water cooled a PS3 Super Slim of Fat? And doing overcloack
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