PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

patricksouza472 said:
...the fuse I talked about had no continuity. I removed it and tested, no beep at all. If I measure the pads to ground, they're both shorted and if I measure between the pads as if the fuse was there, I get around 1400ohm
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You said it was shorted before, which is normal for a fuse...lol. So I was confused. Now you say both pads are grounded? If pad 1 = GND and pad 2 = GND, then the resistance between pads 1&2 cannot be 1400ohms. It must be 0. Do you understand my confusion? Perhaps you are not waiting long enough for the continuity buzzer on your multimeter to charge local capacitors (it will temporarily beep until it charges the capacitor, that's why you sometimes hear it beep for a moment when you first test a cap).
 
RIP-Felix said:
Tantalum has better ESR performance into the higher frequencies. So IMO Tantalum is the better choice of the two. BUT, the TOKINs are better for A-Q models because that's what they were designed for. We don not know if a properly designed Tantalum array will even last longer that a tokin replacement. Wouldn't you like to know that before doing it? If you are in this to fix your console and move on with your life, then replace with new/old stock tokins. If you like to tinker and investigate and are willing to waste more money experimenting, then by all means replace with tantalum.
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Thanks for the answer.
 
RIP-Felix said:
You said it was shorted before, which is normal for a fuse...lol. So I was confused. Now you say both pads are grounded? If pad 1 = GND and pad 2 = GND, then the resistance between pads 1&2 cannot be 1400ohms. It must be 0. Do you understand my confusion? Perhaps you are not waiting long enough for the continuity buzzer on your multimeter to charge local capacitors (it will temporarily beep until it charges the capacitor, that's why you sometimes hear it beep for a moment when you first test a cap).
Click to expand...
Oh, I have put more info on the UART thread and forgot to post it here. So well, when I measured the fuses, all of them had continuity except for F6302 which beeped for a split second and then resistance started to increase (I'm assuming the numbers on the multimeter when testing for continuity is some kind of resistance) up to around 1400. I have removed F6302 after that and checked it, there was no continuity at all (blown fuse, even had slight physical damage), and tested the pads just like I would if there was a fuse (black probe on pad 1, red probe on pad 2 and vice versa) and it did the same thing it was doing when the fuse was there. BUT, when testing continuity to ground, both pads beeped, and I waited for around 10 seconds. I'm also very confused
 
Okay...lol. That makes perfect sense now. Yeah that's normal behavior. That fuse is placed between the +12V_main and will blow if too much current (>5 Amps) tries to flow to ground, otherwise the PS3 would catch on fire and burn your house down. The schematic warns it's critical for safety /!\. SO ONLY REPLACE WITH THE EXACT PART. It will blow when something down stream has shorted. It is definitely causing your YLOD, it may not be the only thing, but it definitely will cause one. So scrutinize all the capacitors past it (which is basically the entire power circuit) Replace any that are in short. I just had a look at the schematic and it looks like that fuse protects a bank of MOSFETs. So start here:
  1. C6320, C6322, 6326 need to be okay or it will short to ground and trip that fuse, before current gets to the MOSFETs.
  2. Q6305, a SI4392DY-T1-E3 (N-Ch sw MOSFET). Check voltages on pins.
  3. 2x Q6303, a SI4336DY-T1-E3 (N-Ch D-S MOSFET). Check voltages on pins.
My guess is the fault is there. If not keep going:
  1. Check the decoupling caps for the filter after the MOSFETs: C6342, 6344, 6346, 6348, R6374, and R6375. Note, I checked 2x of my boards and I was getting ~16Ohms across these caps. So that appears to be normal. There is an identical set of MOSFETs and caps next to these and it gives about 125Ohms. Just be aware that is normal. Both of my boards have YLOD, but with unrelated issues.
  2. R6338, needs to be good.
  3. Then continue downstream using the schematic to identify the location of each component. Pres CRTL+F to find each part above press next and it'll show you where it is on the MB. Go to town with the Multi meter! This is what troubleshooting means...
:Tupakaveli:
EDIT: Note that's the main power supply to the +1.7v_MISC, IC6602, IC6303-5!!! So every MOSFET and VRM are going to have 0v on a supply voltage pin, like you noted earlier (southbridge, YC_RC_VDDA, VDDIO, EEGS_VDDDIG). So yeah, that fuse and whatever shorted to cause it to blow, may actually be the entire YLOD. This is the area to probe:
circuit.png
 
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I don't understand the bridging. I removed and replaced all cpu and gpu necs. Do I bridge bottom and top for both? Total of 4 bridges (8 wires)? Or do I only bridge bottom?
 
RIP-Felix said:
Yeah, back on page 157 @Yugonibblit posted a picture of these same UCC caps. I don't know what model his were in, but it's interesting yours are in a VER-001, because it's the last MB revision before the switch to TaPol and finally AlPol. This could be circumstantial evidence that SONY knew the NEC/TOKINs were either defective or overpriced.
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The model ps3 with those tokin pics is from a DECR 1400A TOOL CONSOLE:D
 
Kleon1876 said:
I don't understand the bridging. I removed and replaced all cpu and gpu necs. Do I bridge bottom and top for both? Total of 4 bridges (8 wires)? Or do I only bridge bottom?
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If you're replacing all of them, you should make 4 bridges only (either bottom or top, not both). Bridging the top side automatically bridges the bottom
 
RIP-Felix said:
Okay...lol. That makes perfect sense now. Yeah that's normal behavior. That fuse is placed between the +12V_main and will blow if too much current (>5 Amps) tries to flow to ground, otherwise the PS3 would catch on fire and burn your house down. The schematic warns it's critical for safety /!\. SO ONLY REPLACE WITH THE EXACT PART. It will blow when something down stream has shorted. It is definitely causing your YLOD, it may not be the only thing, but it definitely will cause one. So scrutinize all the capacitors past it (which is basically the entire power circuit) Replace any that are in short. I just had a look at the schematic and it looks like that fuse protects a bank of MOSFETs. So start here:
  1. C6320, C6322, 6326 need to be okay or it will short to ground and trip that fuse, before current gets to the MOSFETs.
  2. Q6305, a SI4392DY-T1-E3 (N-Ch sw MOSFET). Check voltages on pins.
  3. 2x Q6303, a SI4336DY-T1-E3 (N-Ch D-S MOSFET). Check voltages on pins.
My guess is the fault is there. If not keep going:
  1. Check the decoupling caps for the filter after the MOSFETs: C6342, 6344, 6346, 6348, R6374, and R6375. Note, I checked 2x of my boards and I was getting ~16Ohms across these caps. So that appears to be normal. There is an identical set of MOSFETs and caps next to these and it gives about 125Ohms. Just be aware that is normal. Both of my boards have YLOD, but with unrelated issues.
  2. R6338, needs to be good.
  3. Then continue downstream using the schematic to identify the location of each component. Pres CRTL+F to find each part above press next and it'll show you where it is on the MB. Go to town with the Multi meter! This is what troubleshooting means...
:Tupakaveli:
EDIT: Note that's the main power supply to the +1.7v_MISC, IC6602, IC6303-5!!! So every MOSFET and VRM are going to have 0v on a supply voltage pin, like you noted earlier (southbridge, YC_RC_VDDA, VDDIO, EEGS_VDDDIG). So yeah, that fuse and whatever shorted to cause it to blow, may actually be the entire YLOD. This is the area to probe:
View attachment 30491
Click to expand...
Dude, I can't believe you actually went through all of this trouble just to help me out. I'm speechless. Thank you A LOT
 
patricksouza472 said:
Dude, I can't believe you actually went through all of this trouble just to help me out. I'm speechless. Thank you A LOT
Click to expand...
I haven't gone through that part of the circuit before, so It was also for my own benefit.

Kleon1876 said:
What gauge wire is best?and where to get it?
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On page 114 @squeept was kind enough to have posted the answer that very question...
Figure for 15A transmission. If it pulls more than that from the wall, for longer than a split second, it'd trip a breaker. The load is distributed between the CPU, GPU and other stuff, so 4x 16-18AWG is probably more than sufficient, both sides of board and per chip. So 8 total.
 
Yugonibblit said:
View attachment 30538 View attachment 30540 https://oshpark.com/profiles/Soulkilla , I saw this today:D
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The TaPol the person who made the PCB recommends is 25mOhms, so don't use that one. The height is a problem. The PCB adds 0.8mm to the height of the caps. So we have to get 2mm caps so the combined height will fit under the RF shield. So we can't use the same TaPol caps SONY used, either. I think the most suitable alternative is the 2R5TPE470M7. Some of you have already ordered the M9, but the M7 is 7mOhms instead of 9. Even with 7mOhms/12caps, the combined ESR is 0.583mOms. It should be 0.375 or less. That's not ideal, but should be okay.

However, the AlPol that SONY used (EEFSX0D471E4) should be adequate. The ESR would be the same as a tokin (0.375mOhms). The capacitance would be a bit higher, but not significantly so. AlPol high frequency ESR performance isn't as good as TaPol, but both have their disadvantages using that PCB.

I love me some perfect purple PCB's, so I just ordered 18x on 0.8mm double thick copper (only $8.40), 24x TaPol and 24x AlPol (~$100 from mouser). I'll test them on the oscilloscope to see if there is any measurable difference compared to the Tokins on PS3#4.
If you haven't been following my PS3s, #4 was a sealed A01 with a 2s YLOD. It presents a single 3034 SYCON error, which I have concluded by process of elimination is "most likely" a BGA defect. Until this point I have been using it as a control console. I have been using the Oscilloscope to characterize it's tokin noise and I have not yet removed the tokins.

I also have not bent the HS tension springs either. If I did, the extra pressure could reconnect the BGA defect and I don't want that. I have assembled/dissassembled this A01 several times and it always gives a 2s YLOD, so I'm confident that the BGA defect is not so sensitive that it would reconnect just by assembling it.

For this test I will remove all the tokins WITHOUT hot air. I'll use flush cuts to remove the tokins, desoldeing braid + T12 C4 tip to clean the pads. That is the LEAST amount of heat possible. Heat can cause the board to flex microscopically and a BGA defect to reconnect mechanically. I am trying to avoid this kind of false positive. I will install the TaPol/AlPol capacitors to the PCB separately, to keep the heat away from the motherboard and make soldering easier. Then I will use minimal heat to properly install the populated PCB to the MB. This should result in the least warping on a 2s YLOD motherboard attempted on this thread yet. The only attempts that resulted in less heat applied to the MB are the piggyback method. That method does not remove the tokins from the equation, this way does.

What I hope to accomplish with this test:
  1. Silence that irrational inner voice asking, "but what if the 470uF caps are doing something you don't understand." Mostly this comes from a place of insecurity. I tried using B case tantalum caps, not the ones the OP suggested. This shouldn't make any difference, and my oscilloscope measurements agreed, but "what if?" I want to shut up that inner idiot! Basically, I want to prove that our Oscilloscope measuring method works. That there's nothing my scope isn't picking up or something hiding in a way that we're not understanding. If there is some way the tokins can be bad and not show up on a scope, this test will rule it out.
    • If the console boots: First, I'd be shocked. Next, I would of course test it thoroughly and over multiple thermal cycles to rule out a BGA false positive. If it continued to work and prove stable, then I'll be converted. Cult me up, the world is flat, the kool-aid is salvation, pass the mic so I can sing @Naked_Snake1995's praises.
    • If it doesn't boot, that's good because it supports the BGA defect hypothesis and proves our o-scope measuring technique works. All the physics and engineering actually equates to reality, all is right with the world. Reballing is not a con, and you all are cultists if you keep ruining your consoles thinking a 2s YLOD is likely to be revived by replacing the tokins.
  2. I want to see how the noise changes. How well does the PCB+TaPol caps (5,640uF | 0.583mOhms ESR), and PCB+AlPol caps (5,640uF | 0.375mOhms ESR) compare to the verified good tokins?
 
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@RIP-Felix heres my final update on that CECHA00. So i hadn't used it for almost an entire week so its been off during that time. booted it up, played GT6 & GTA 4 for the last hour ish absolutely no issues! i feel pretty confident to say that the tantalums worked:) now if this system sh*** the bed ever i will of course give another update.
 
Thanks for the update. I feel like you must've gotten lucky, but this fix is still experimental, so who knows. Either way, I'm happy for ya bud!!! Another in the win column (so far). Maybe I should actually make a win column...lol. Just an FYI, I think the false positives tend to go back to YLOD within the first 2 months, so keep playing on it and be sure to update us in 6 weeks!
 
Revak3115 said:
@RIP-Felix heres my final update on that CECHA00. So i hadn't used it for almost an entire week so its been off during that time. booted it up, played GT6 & GTA 4 for the last hour ish absolutely no issues! i feel pretty confident to say that the tantalums worked:) now if this system sh*** the bed ever i will of course give another update.
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That A00 is the one that would turn on fine, but had YLOD under load and you only used knife yes? That's nice

It's not the one that had the squeept signature right?

It's easy to mix systems when there are so many
 
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