PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[RIP-Felix]

View attachment 30538 View attachment 30540 https://oshpark.com/profiles/Soulkilla , I saw this today

@squeept You might consider getting some of those OSH park 3x Cap adtapter boards. It will make TaPol/AlPol testing on this console easier, and safer. I bought 18x for $8.40 so they're dirt cheap...the caps on the other hand - not so much! If you have dead slims around, though they can be harvested from the corpse of consoles past.

Once we get the noise that causes intermittent YLOD defined, then we can move onto evaluating the number of caps needed to make it stable. I'm thinking of using those OSH park boards with 1 cap each, and adding them 1-by-1 until it's stable, making measurements of the noise reduction after each test. That should give us a good idea of the switch mode noise threshold for the YLOD events. It should confirm if the caps will work and etc.

Don't get too hasty, those boards with bad caps are so hard to find we need to go slow. Let's focus on the tokins first and defining the baseline Vpp switch mode ripple first. This should be within the first few seconds of boot. We need this to compare to YLOD consoles and later when we add caps 1-by-1. Then lets do it under load, using GT6 on a notorious track. The noise should get it's worst under peak load. So if you can get a picture of the noise before the YLOD occurs, that would be perfect. Maybe it's 15% higher or whatever. That would just give us the approximate noise threshold for YLOD.

Now looking at your image @squeept , the ripple also has those characteristic noise and ringing peaks. If that's actually in the signal, not coming from your probing technique, that could be what's causing the intermittent YLOD too. They have a tendency to interrupt com signals and lead to errors (glitching, freezes, artifacts, YLOD under load). So we'll want to measure their amplitude as well.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Oh...@squeept. Try a different PSU. A few users have noted that a PSU can cause a YLOD under high load, and that replacing the PSU fixed it. We should rule that out.

 

[squeept]

@RIP-Felix Got distracted playing with my new toys, and now I have a discord date to play some games. I can dick around with it a bit tomorrow, but what I'm thinking right now is this...

The caps I normally use and trust are backordered and I'm out of stock, so this board will just be sitting here for a month before I can fix it, and didn't you want a reballed system anyway? I'll see what I can figure out later, but Imma slide in to your DMs after I poke around a bit tomorrow and try to sell you this board with no warranty super duper cheap for the sake of science.

 

[RIP-Felix]

@RIP-Felix Got distracted playing with my new toys, and now I have a discord date to play some games. I can dick around with it a bit tomorrow, but what I'm thinking right now is this...

The caps I normally use and trust are backordered and I'm out of stock, so this board will just be sitting here for a month before I can fix it, and didn't you want a reballed system anyway? I'll see what I can figure out later, but Imma slide in to your DMs after I poke around a bit tomorrow and try to sell you this board with no warranty super duper cheap for the sake of science.

PM me what your thinking, I'm definitely interested! Maybe we can work out a motherboard trade? No warranty, of course. I believe PS3#4 is a prime candidate for a successful reball (if there ever is one). If you can fix it, you can sell it and make the trade a win win.

PS3#4: I've posted the picture of the errorlog, tokin noise, and the differential probing results in this thread before, but...

Spoiler: Here they are again for convenience

To remind you, it's a CECHA01, 1.5s YLOD presenting a single 403034. The SYSCON error log goes back to the original date it YLOD (I think). The first error was 0xffffffff followed a minute later by 403034...the next one was 3 months later...2 months later there were 2 more within 30s of each other...then I got it in November tested twice and it had the same errors, after which the time codes stops because I opened the console and unplugged the clock battery. Luckily I didn't test it too many times for the errorlog to fill up and delete the original errors. The console was sealed when I got it, so the previous 3 owners must have tested it then sold it forward. Goodwill, garage sale, or "untested" (liars) on e-bay.

I have not removed the tokins, which look fine IMO. The underlying waveform that you have identified as the "bad" waveform (switch mode ripple) is always there, but it's so small that it's hard to make out in the higher frequency sawtooth pattern. That's where the differential probing technique comes in. Normal tokins (at least these ones) have 3mV vs something like 50-100mV for bad tokins. It's a pretty big difference. So when the ripple is large, it dominates the smaller oscillations and is easy to see with a single probing technique - like you've been doing. When its smaller than the normal osculations, you need to use a differential probing technique to even make it out. Basically the ripple is suppressed adequately, when it's hard to find. I suspect that's why it's been hard to define the threshold for the intermittent YLOD. The ripple is sufficiently low at first, but under intense load, when switch mode ripple is largest, it begins to interfere with normal signals.

 

[poopskoop]

The TaPol the person who made the PCB recommends is 25mOhms, so don't use that one. The height is a problem. The PCB adds 0.8mm to the height of the caps. So we have to get 2mm caps so the combined height will fit under the RF shield. So we can't use the same TaPol caps SONY used, either. I think the most suitable alternative is the 2R5TPE470M7. Some of you have already ordered the M9, but the M7 is 7mOhms instead of 9. Even with 7mOhms/12caps, the combined ESR is 0.583mOms. It should be 0.375 or less. That's not ideal, but should be okay.

However, the AlPol that SONY used (EEFSX0D471E4) should be adequate. The ESR would be the same as a tokin (0.375mOhms). The capacitance would be a bit higher, but not significantly so. AlPol high frequency ESR performance isn't as good as TaPol, but both have their disadvantages using that PCB. I thought esr as 1.0mohms per nec: https://idoc.pub/download/nec-tokin-oe128-datasheet-d2nvp587qdnk

I love me some perfect purple PCB's, so I just ordered 18x on 0.8mm double thick copper (only $8.40), 24x TaPol and 24x AlPol (~$100 from mouser). I'll test them on the oscilloscope to see if there is any measurable difference compared to the Tokins on PS3#4.

Spoiler: PS3#4 & my test procedure

If you haven't been following my PS3s, #4 was a sealed A01 with a 2s YLOD. It presents a single 3034 SYCON error, which I have concluded by process of elimination is "most likely" a BGA defect. Until this point I have been using it as a control console. I have been using the Oscilloscope to characterize it's tokin noise and I have not yet removed the tokins.

I also have not bent the HS tension springs either. If I did, the extra pressure could reconnect the BGA defect and I don't want that. I have assembled/dissassembled this A01 several times and it always gives a 2s YLOD, so I'm confident that the BGA defect is not so sensitive that it would reconnect just by assembling it.

For this test I will remove all the tokins WITHOUT hot air. I'll use flush cuts to remove the tokins, desoldeing braid + T12 C4 tip to clean the pads. That is the LEAST amount of heat possible. Heat can cause the board to flex microscopically and a BGA defect to reconnect mechanically. I am trying to avoid this kind of false positive. I will install the TaPol/AlPol capacitors to the PCB separately, to keep the heat away from the motherboard and make soldering easier. Then I will use minimal heat to properly install the populated PCB to the MB. This should result in the least warping on a 2s YLOD motherboard attempted on this thread yet. The only attempts that resulted in less heat applied to the MB are the piggyback method. That method does not remove the tokins from the equation, this way does.

What I hope to accomplish with this test:

1. Silence that irrational inner voice asking, "but what if the 470uF caps are doing something you don't understand." Mostly this comes from a place of insecurity. I tried using B case tantalum caps, not the ones the OP suggested. This shouldn't make any difference, and my oscilloscope measurements agreed, but "what if?" I want to shut up that inner idiot! Basically, I want to prove that our Oscilloscope measuring method works. That there's nothing my scope isn't picking up or something hiding in a way that we're not understanding. If there is some way the tokins can be bad and not show up on a scope, this test will rule it out.
   • If the console boots: First, I'd be shocked. Next, I would of course test it thoroughly and over multiple thermal cycles to rule out a BGA false positive. If it continued to work and prove stable, then I'll be converted. Cult me up, the world is flat, the kool-aid is salvation, pass the mic so I can sing @Naked_Snake1995's praises.
     
   • If it doesn't boot, that's good because it supports the BGA defect hypothesis and proves our o-scope measuring technique works. All the physics and engineering actually equates to reality, all is right with the world. Reballing is not a con, and you all are cultists if you keep ruining your consoles thinking a 2s YLOD is likely to be revived by replacing the tokins.
2. I want to see how the noise changes. How well does the PCB+TaPol caps (5,640uF | 0.583mOhms ESR), and PCB+AlPol caps (5,640uF | 0.375mOhms ESR) compare to the verified good tokins?

So We need a tantalum 5mohms or less to be effective? I ordered some tants the regular yellow ones they are 100mohms esr so I assume this is a big problem and could contribute to boot issues? also did you ever fix that 901001 ps3?

 

[RIP-Felix]

So We need a tantalum 5mohms or less to be effective? I ordered some tants the regular yellow ones they are 100mohms esr so I assume this is a big problem and could contribute to boot issues?

No, you need an array of TaPol with a combined ESR of 0.375mOhms. You can do it with 100mOhm caps, but you wouldn't want to. You'd need 267 of them in parallel, 100mOhms/266 caps = 0.375mOhms. Now the problem with that is that 470uF x 267 = 0.125 Farads (WAY OVERKILL). Not to mention impractical. Who wants to solder on that many caps? Instead you need to look for caps that are designed for processor decoupling (Low ESR). The lower the ESR, the fewer in parallel you need to match a tokin array.

I don't remember having that error. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?

 

[poopskoop]

No, you need an array of TaPol with a combined ESR of 0.375mOhms. You can do it with 100mOhm caps, but you wouldn't want to. You'd need 267 of them in parallel, 100mOhms/266 caps = 0.375mOhms. Now the problem with that is that 470uF x 267 = 0.125 Farads (WAY OVERKILL). Not to mention impractical. Who wants to solder on that many caps? Instead you need to look for caps that are designed for processor decoupling (Low ESR). The lower the ESR, the fewer in parallel you need to match a tokin array.

I don't remember having that error. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?

what is a taPOL I googled this but could not find anything so something like 5mohms would be much better to bad they dont mention these in the guides or I didnt see it. Could you recommend some good caps? Ahh yes the 901001 was squeept and you were asking him about it in another thread because he also had a 1701 and a 901001 did you ever get your 1701 error fixed (cell be attention?) mine says it has no power to the cell xdr in the static power off state 90 im not sure how to check that or how much power is supposed to go to them in static off but when turned on before ylod they all get proper voltage.

 

[RIP-Felix]

what is a taPOL...Could you recommend some good caps?

Shorthand for Tantalum (Ta) Polymer (Pol). I can and already have. A few pages back I posted a great deal of information on capacitors and which ones would be likely choices. Ultimately, you're trying to match 4800uF 0.375mOhms ESR combined.

What's less clear at this point is if higher frequency noise will be a problem using Tantalum or Aluminum Polymer caps, since they don't perform as well as tokins. Sony only started using them after making the switch to 45nm Cell Be and 40nm RSX. Since these chips don't draw as much current, the switch mode noise would inherently be less. Also, they stopped using the IOR IP2003APbF, which was where the noise came from on Fat models. The whole filter circuit on slim/SS models is different. We cannot compare apples to oranges, so to speak. So assuming Tantalum caps will work in place of tokins, is a gamble. There have been some users reporting long term sucess using them, about 1 year confirmed, but that's hardly long enough to know if HF noise it's slowly killing the CPU/GPU. That's where the oscilloscope measurements come in. We're getting there, but as I've said before, this mod is still experimental. The best replacement for a Tokin is still a tokin.

 

[poopskoop]

Shorthand for Tantalum (Ta) Polymer (Pol). I can and already have. A few pages back I posted a great deal of information on capacitors and which ones would be likely choices. Ultimately, you're trying to match 4800uF 0.375mOhms ESR combined.

What's less clear at this point is if higher frequency noise will be a problem using Tantalum or Aluminum Polymer caps, since they don't perform as well as tokins. Sony only started using them after making the switch to 45nm Cell Be and 40nm RSX. Since these chips don't draw as much current, the switch mode noise would inherently be less. Also, they stopped using the IOR IP2003APbF, which was where the noise came from on Fat models. The whole filter circuit on slim/SS models is different. We cannot compare apples to oranges, so to speak. So assuming Tantalum caps will work in place of tokins, is a gamble. There have been some users reporting long term sucess using them, about 1 year confirmed, but that's hardly long enough to know if HF noise it's slowly killing the CPU/GPU. That's where the oscilloscope measurements come in. We're getting there, but as I've said before, this mod is still experimental. The best replacement for a Tokin is still a tokin.

True did you ever get the error 1701 fixed?

 

[RIP-Felix]

so another 3034 candidate :
[SSM] Bringup mode : syspm_stat=00000000/00000000
[POWSEQ] PowerSeq_Setup called.
[SSM] state: 0101 -> 0201
[POWSEQ] AV Backend Setup
[SSM] state: 0201 -> 0102
[SSM] state: 0102 -> 0202
[SSM] state: 0202 -> 0103
[SSM] state: 0103 -> 0203
[SSM] ssmCb_BeforeBeOn() called.
[SSM] state: 0203 -> 0104
Psbd_SbTransMode_Half:0x20e2
[POWERSEQ] Error : BitTraining BE:RRAC:RX0:GLOBAL1:RX_STATUS
[SSM] state: 0104 -> 0304
[SSM] ssm

I heated the RSX for 5.5 min or 420 with a heat station (no bottom heat) and no I get this:
>$ bringup
bringup
[SSM] state: 0000 -> 0101
Bringup Mode #0 (0xFF)
[SSM] ssmCb_OnStartingBePowOn() called.
[SSM] First Boot.
[SSM] Bringup mode : syspm_stat=00000000/00000000
[POWSEQ] PowerSeq_Setup called.
[SSM] state: 0101 -> 0201
[POWSEQ] AV Backend Setup
[SSM] state: 0201 -> 0102
[SSM] state: 0102 -> 0202
[SSM] state: 0202 -> 0103
[SSM] state: 0103 -> 0203
[SSM] ssmCb_BeforeBeOn() called.
[SSM] state: 0203 -> 0104
Psbd_SbTransMode_Half:0x20e2
>$ [mullion]$ [SSM] state: 0104 -> 0204
[SSM] state: 0204 -> 0105
[SSM] state: 0105 -> 0400
(PowerOn State)
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
Boot Loader SE Version 1.0.0 (Build ID: 1673,16934, Build Data: 2006-10-30_12:39:57)
Copyright(C) 2006 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.All Rights Reserved.
[SERV SETCFG] XDR (CH0,CH1) ASSERT
[SERV SETCFG] XDR (CH0,CH1) DEASSERT
[INFO]: Connecting to Debug Device (SB UART)
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD
[SERV NVS] READ CMD

still it beeps after 5.5 seconds on green and then after 1-2 more seconds it ylods and 3 beeps so progress!Is this what it does when diag is to ground? looks like it needs a reball! question is who still does em? The attached picture are the readings of all caps after heating all are good except 113 one it is 86? so I guess my reheat wasn't perfect. What othger things should I put my multimeter on to check voltage etc

I'm quoting this from the SYSCON thread because it seems your problem could now be related to the capacitors. It looks like your reflow was successful (you got super lucky BTW). Now, either you cooked your tokins to death or killed your Ram. Or your tokins were bad to begin with, which is the premise of this thread. It's rare, but does happen.

Can you please confirm some information for me?

• Is this picture of your MB?
  Spoiler

  
  It's clearly a COK-001, but was it an A or B model PS3?
  
• What caps are giving you the 80 1701 and 90 1001 SYSCON errors? (model #). If the picture above is your MB, then they look like 330uF 2.5v 1.1Ohm VISHAY B Case TMCMB0E337. Those are inappropriate for this circuit. The ESR is WAY too high. They could actually cause those errors, however to my knowledge, you are the first person to confirm that high ESR caps do cause those errors...assuming that picture is of your board. That is an important contribution! Thank you!!!
• Please give us a detailed description of the console history. Did you buy it sealed? What work was done on it? Describe the YLOD? Please be specific, your error codes and the specific behavior of your YLOD are pertinent to the experiments I'm doing. Some more pictures would be helpful.

I am reasonably confident that your console can be fixed if you replace those capacitors with 18x 270uF 2.5v 6mOhm Panasonic ETPSF270M6E. In fact I really hope you do, because I installed them on a console presenting basically the same 3034 error before. I confirmed the Noise at boot looked fine with these caps, but still had that 3034 error (BGA defect). So it would YLOD after 500ms (Instant YLOD). I attempted a reball and failed. Had I succeeded, I would have been able to test that tantalum array under load and prove it works. I never got that chance, but now you do!

 

[poopskoop]

I'm quoting this from the SYSCON thread because it seems your problem could now be related to the capacitors. It looks like your reflow was successful (you got super lucky BTW). Now, either you cooked your tokins to death or killed your Ram. Or your tokins were bad to begin with, which is the premise of this thread. It's rare, but does happen.

Can you please confirm some information for me?

• Is this picture of your MB?
  Spoiler

  
  It's clearly a COK-001, but was it an A or B model PS3?
  
• What caps are giving you the 80 1701 and 90 1001 SYSCON errors? (model #). If the picture above is your MB, then they look like 330uF 2.5v 1.1Ohm VISHAY B Case TMCMB0E337. Those are inappropriate for this circuit. The ESR is WAY too high. They could actually cause those errors, however to my knowledge, you are the first person to confirm that high ESR caps do cause those errors...assuming that picture is of your board. That is an important contribution! Thank you!!!
• Please give us a detailed description of the console history. Did you buy it sealed? What work was done on it? Describe the YLOD? Please be specific, your error codes and the specific behavior of your YLOD are pertinent to the experiments I'm doing. Some more pictures would be helpful.

I am reasonably confident that your console can be fixed if you replace those capacitors with 18x 270uF 2.5v 6mOhm Panasonic ETPSF270M6E. In fact I really hope you do, because I installed them on a console presenting basically the same 3034 error before. I confirmed the Noise at boot looked fine with these caps, but still had that 3034 error (BGA defect). So it would YLOD after 500ms (Instant YLOD). I attempted a reball and failed. Had I succeeded, I would have been able to test that tantalum array under load and prove it works. I never got that chance, but now you do!

That spoiler link is cool I need to learn how to do that anyway no this is a picture of my mobo: https://www.psx-place.com/threads/c0k-001-nec-tokin-repair-still-ylod-immediately.32730/. 470uf I think they are 100mohms but Im sure you would know better so here are the details:
cok-001 checha01
The caps are D type 477 avx 470uf I believe esr 100mohms and currently I have 24 of them 12 per side none on the bottom side of the board (I took the ones off the top where I put the wires and put them on the other side of the board. I was running low on tants so one of them was measuring 300uf and one was 500uf they may indeed be damaged as I had a short circuit in that thread about grounding and it actually blew 3 tants per side) I have just ordered these:
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/80-T591D477M2R5ATE06/ KEMET tantalums 2.5v 6mohms tants 470uf

so now about my console I bought it unsealed in a lot of 100ps3s lol for 80 bucks after I got rid of them all I kept this one and used it with the original necs ( it wasnt ylod and worked fine) for about 3 years. Last year it yloded and I sent it to the rs3reballspecialist (ahem scammer) took 4 months most people have their ps3s stolen by him and when I got it back it looked like he just hit it with a heat gun. It worked for about a year of heavy use and video streaming and it yloded again so I did the rsx side with these: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07SZC5LTQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 after about a couple weeks to a month it yloded again so I did the cpu side. This time it only booted 3 times yloding at the xmb and on the third time it would ylod just after the xmb then no more xmb about 3-5 sec. I noticed I had broken a capacitor and ordered it and replaced it.C1120 with this part: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/581-0603ZC105KAT2A/ still no dice. So I decided to do the front side necs with tants. got them all off and replaced but still no dice. when I was removing the wire I had placed on the cpu side I did a small bit of damage: https://www.psx-place.com/attachments/img_3532-jpg.30502/ same thing tho still ylod 3-5 sec. after some more booting and testing all yloding I began to do more checks on the board with a multimeter. After a while and a couple fan spin overheats it yloded immediately. I started to get pissed but then I found the uart thread and decided to give it a try.
hooked it all up and found I had the bit training error. My gpu side capacitors were only pulling 1.12v which seems low So I reflowed the gpu and the bittraining and 801002 were gone and the 3004 now the gpu was pulling 2.0v then settles in at 1.8 at the necs however in my first error log I noticed two codes 801701 and 8014FF is Check Stop m4jor told me. After rebooting I began to get 801701 and 901001 constantly and my cpu was pulling 1.14v as it was before the gpu reflow. my ram is getting voltage 1.2 on the 2 caps near the cpu xdr and 1.8 on the other 2. So I tried reflowing the cpu but same errors. so maybe I didn't fully reflow (id didnt cover the bottom hole of the cpu or that damage is the problem or the voltage is correct and the tantalums are the problem. as I think you said the cpu was more sensitive I find it interesting that it yloded after only 3 boots when I did the cpu side on the top of the board. Do you know what the voltage should be on a working C0k-001 cpu on th nec positive pads?

 

[RIP-Felix]

That spoiler link is cool I need to learn how to do that anyway no this is a picture of my mobo: https://www.psx-place.com/threads/c0k-001-nec-tokin-repair-still-ylod-immediately.32730/. 470uf I think they are 100mohms but Im sure you would know better so here are the details:
cok-001 checha01
The caps are D type 477 avx 470uf I believe esr 100mohms and currently I have 24 of them 12 per side none on the bottom side of the board (I took the ones off the top where I put the wires and put them on the other side of the board. I was running low on tants so one of them was measuring 300uf and one was 500uf they may indeed be damaged as I had a short circuit in that thread about grounding and it actually blew 3 tants per side) I have just ordered these:
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/80-T591D477M2R5ATE06/ KEMET tantalums 2.5v 6mohms tants 470uf

so now about my console I bought it unsealed in a lot of 100ps3s lol for 80 bucks after I got rid of them all I kept this one and used it with the original necs ( it wasnt ylod and worked fine) for about 3 years. Last year it yloded and I sent it to the rs3reballspecialist (ahem scammer) took 4 months most people have their ps3s stolen by him and when I got it back it looked like he just hit it with a heat gun. It worked for about a year of heavy use and video streaming and it yloded again so I did the rsx side with these: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07SZC5LTQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 after about a couple weeks to a month it yloded again so I did the cpu side. This time it only booted 3 times yloding at the xmb and on the third time it would ylod just after the xmb then no more xmb about 3-5 sec. I noticed I had broken a capacitor and ordered it and replaced it.C1120 with this part: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/581-0603ZC105KAT2A/ still no dice. So I decided to do the front side necs with tants. got them all off and replaced but still no dice. when I was removing the wire I had placed on the cpu side I did a small bit of damage: https://www.psx-place.com/attachments/img_3532-jpg.30502/ same thing tho still ylod 3-5 sec. after some more booting and testing all yloding I began to do more checks on the board with a multimeter. After a while and a couple fan spin overheats it yloded immediately. I started to get pissed but then I found the uart thread and decided to give it a try.
hooked it all up and found I had the bit training error. My gpu side capacitors were only pulling 1.12v which seems low So I reflowed the gpu and the bittraining and 801002 were gone and the 3004 now the gpu was pulling 2.0v then settles in at 1.8 at the necs however in my first error log I noticed two codes 801701 and 8014FF is Check Stop m4jor told me. After rebooting I began to get 801701 and 901001 constantly and my cpu was pulling 1.14v as it was before the gpu reflow. my ram is getting voltage 1.2 on the 2 caps near the cpu xdr and 1.8 on the other 2. So I tried reflowing the cpu but same errors. so maybe I didn't fully reflow (id didnt cover the bottom hole of the cpu or that damage is the problem or the voltage is correct and the tantalums are the problem. as I think you said the cpu was more sensitive I find it interesting that it yloded after only 3 boots when I did the cpu side on the top of the board. Do you know what the voltage should be on a working C0k-001 cpu on th nec positive pads?

Good thing I asked. Okay, those yellow AVX caps are...noob bait! Yes, I bit too, so you're not alone...lol! I hate KEMET, but those "might" work. Let us know.

Given the history of your console, the tokins were probably damaged by a combination of age, use, and multiple reflows. To answer your question about voltages...

Spoiler: Diagnostic Jumper Location & Description

To place things in spoiler brackets, Press the "insert" button in the toolbar --> choose "spoiler." You can also inset an image by copying it's link location and pressing insert picture. If you put it in a spoiler it'll keep the thread tidy. There are plenty of other things too, but that's off topic.

 

[poopskoop]

Good thing I asked. Okay, those yellow AVX caps are...noob bait! Yes, I bit too, so you're not alone...lol! I hate KEMET, but those "might" work. Let us know.

Given the history of your console, the tokins were probably damaged by a combination of age, use, and multiple reflows. To answer your question about voltages...

Spoiler: Diagnostic Jumper Location & Description

View attachment 30818 View attachment 30817

To place things in spoiler brackets, Press the "insert" button in the toolbar --> choose "spoiler." You can also inset an image by copying it's link location and pressing insert picture. If you put it in a spoiler it'll keep the thread tidy. There are plenty of other things too, but that's off topic.

Yes my ps3 has significant uptime lol here:
>$becount
becount
Bringup : 3278 times
Shutdown: 2963 times
Power-on: 128day 18hour 27min 46sec
Damn those noob caps lol all the guides use them all the video guides too! The original guide doesn't give a type but I'm guessing he knew about esr because if you use a 5-6mohm one and divide it by 16 you get the proper number.
whats wrong with kemet are they garbage or something?
I need some clarification on that diagnostic jumper table and what voltage is what, I will definitely check all these and tank you so much for this but would JL6114 be like putting your probe right on the positive poles of the nec?

any way you slice it though my voltage on the nec is low at 1.14 vddio im guessing is data line voltage and than vdda or c would be the actual nec voltage maybe?

 

[squeept]

Alrighty, back to work. I swapped a different power supply and still got it to crash. I think everyone wins if I just ship this one over to you, gonna DM now.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Yes my ps3 has significant uptime lol here:
>$becount
becount
Bringup : 3278 times
Shutdown: 2963 times
Power-on: 128day 18hour 27min 46sec
Damn those noob caps lol all the guides use them all the video guides too! The original guide doesn't give a type but I'm guessing he knew about esr because if you use a 5-6mohm one and divide it by 16 you get the proper number.
whats wrong with kemet are they garbage or something?
I need some clarification on that diagnostic jumper table and what voltage is what, I will definitely check all these and tank you so much for this but would JL6114 be like putting your probe right on the positive poles of the nec?

any way you slice it though my voltage on the nec is low at 1.14 vddio im guessing is data line voltage and than vdda or c would be the actual nec voltage maybe?

So it's experienced 315 unexpected shutdowns. That includes YLOD and pulling the plug without shutting down first. Seems reasonable for the history you shared. 2000 - 3000 thermal cycles seems ballpark for a BGA defects using SAC305 lead free solder. From what I've seen that makes sense. 3090 hours, assuming 8 hours of use per day is 1 year of use +5% (386days). And no-one is going to put in 8hrs/day, every day, for a year. SONY's warranty was 1 year. That's not coincidence...it's engineering! If anyone think it's coincidence, then ask your self why they include a bring-up/shutdown counter? It's to see if actual units are failing as predicted by simulation. If not they may have to recall. Being able to identify that early saves alot of money. But they stand to maximize profit by killing consoles just after the warranty period. Neat to see how ruthless they are, huh?

That's what we're fighting here folks!

KEMET ain't Panasonic, that's what's wrong with them...lol! It's just fanboy-ism...don't take it seriously.

Your voltages mean nothing with so much ESR on those AVX caps. I suspect it's screwing up the voltage sensing in the PWM microcontroller. The fact the errors are indicating in the System on and off state is good news. That means it's making POST. Somewhere after that it tries to fully power on and start communicating, that's when it feels sick and passes out. Those 1701 and 1001 are complaining about VRAM, but I'd install low ESR caps and then test. There is a good chance that will clear up your issues.

If not, then I'd start replacing MOSFETs and their Drivers.

 

[poopskoop]

So it's experienced 315 unexpected shutdowns. That includes YLOD and pulling the plug without shutting down first. Seems reasonable for the history you shared. 2000 - 3000 thermal cycles seems ballpark for a BGA defects using SAC305 lead free solder. From what I've seen that makes sense. 3090 hours, assuming 8 hours of use per day is 1 year of use +5% (386days). And no-one is going to put in 8hrs/day, every day, for a year. SONY's warranty was 1 year. That's not coincidence...it's engineering! If anyone think it's coincidence, then ask your self why they include a bring-up/shutdown counter? It's to see if actual units are failing as predicted by simulation. If not they may have to recall. Being able to identify that early saves alot of money. But they stand to maximize profit by killing consoles just after the warranty period. Neat to see how ruthless they are, huh?

That's what we're fighting here folks!

KEMET ain't Panasonic, that's what wrong with them...lol! It's just fanboy-ism...don't take it seriously.

Your voltages mean nothing with so much ESR on those AVX caps. I suspect it's screwing up the voltage sensing in the PWM microcontroller. The fact the errors are indicating in the System on and off state is good news. That means it's making POST. Somewhere after that it tries to fully power on and start communicating, that's when it feels sick out and passes out. Those 1701 and 1001 are complaining about VRAM, but I'd install low ESR caps and then test. There is a good chance that will clear up your issues.

If not, then I'd start replacing MOSFETs and their Drivers.

So it's experienced 315 unexpected shutdowns. That includes YLOD and pulling the plug without shutting down first. Seems reasonable for the history you shared. 2000 - 3000 thermal cycles seems ballpark for a BGA defects using SAC305 lead free solder. From what I've seen that makes sense. 3090 hours, assuming 8 hours of use per day is 1 year of use +5% (386days). And no-one is going to put in 8hrs/day, every day, for a year. SONY's warranty was 1 year. That's not coincidence...it's engineering! If anyone think it's coincidence, then ask your self why they include a bring-up/shutdown counter? It's to see if actual units are failing as predicted by simulation. If not they may have to recall. Being able to identify that early saves alot of money. But they stand to maximize profit by killing consoles just after the warranty period. Neat to see how ruthless they are, huh?

That's what we're fighting here folks!

KEMET ain't Panasonic, that's what wrong with them...lol! It's just fanboy-ism...don't take it seriously.

Your voltages mean nothing with so much ESR on those AVX caps. I suspect it's screwing up the voltage sensing in the PWM microcontroller. The fact the errors are indicating in the System on and off state is good news. That means it's making POST. Somewhere after that it tries to fully power on and start communicating, that's when it feels sick out and passes out. Those 1701 and 1001 are complaining about VRAM, but I'd install low ESR caps and then test. There is a good chance that will clear up your issues.

If not, then I'd start replacing MOSFETs and their Drivers.

True I mean they can't warranty it forever some are gonna fail. 1 year is pretty junk tho I agree.
good thing its fanboyism I almost crapped my pants they werent cheap haha. panasonic is good though I had a pair of their noise cancelling headphones I ran with them worked in a factory with them they got wet rained on and they never stopped working.

True but I am very fastidious and just like to know what the values should be for reference. I have my fingers crossed and ill keep you posted

 

[RIP-Felix]

I need some clarification on that diagnostic jumper table and what voltage is what, I will definitely check all these and tank you so much for this but would JL6114 be like putting your probe right on the positive poles of the nec?

any way you slice it though my voltage on the nec is low at 1.14 vddio im guessing is data line voltage and than vdda or c would be the actual nec voltage maybe?

Here's the overview of voltages on RSX that you may see when probing different points.

1 +1.8V RSX_PLL_VDD (voltage for clock multiplier?)
2 +1.2V RSX_VDDC (main supply voltage)
3 +1.2V RSX_VDDR (memory voltage)
4 +1.2V YC_RC_VDDIO
5 +1.5V RSX_RC_VDDA
6 +1.5V RSX_VDDIO
7 +1.8V RSX_FBVDDQ (memory buffer voltage)

Based on this: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Talk:RSX

From my understanding, all these lines go into RSX and are, in theory, supposed to be present on all models. The point was still to try and figure out if VDDR actually differs between revisions. I bet that 1.5v @ElGris and @vyktormvmpay25 were seeing is not VDDR, but VDDIO or VDDA. Felix could correct me here since I have a tendency to overlook important logic...

I also just discovered a very raw voltage scheme for DYN-001 (it's still using 65nm RSX), but it claims there may be errors and main supply to GPU is missing. So the schematic is only good for checking IC names.

Spoiler: DYN-001

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.trisaster.de/page/index.php?topic=287

@ElGris, I have posted here some thoughts about resistors earlier on. If you're talking about the ones related to reset, it was mentioned here



At this point I think many have noticed I'm nearly thinking aloud. Like Felix said, it would be much easier if we had a EE checking voltages and helping with schematics.

If you want a fun read the thread in the quote above is fascinating! My tokins read about 1.3v, but I don't read it with a multimeter. I used my oscilloscope. A multimeter may not be accurate enough in the 3-5s you have to read the voltage. 1.14 might be low, or it might be fine. Let's see when you excise the yellow AVX caps (AKA cancer).

 

[poopskoop]

If you want a fun read the thread in the quote above is fascinating! My tokins read about 1.3v, but I don't read it with a multimeter. I used my oscilloscope. A multimeter may not be accurate enough in the 3-5s you have to read the voltage. 1.14 might be low, or it might be fine. Let's see when you excise the yellow AVX caps (AKA cancer).

very good read some more pictures with voltage probe points would make this a lot easier for people interestingly the cell dumps the nec voltage to the jl6103.
As for the multimeter mines pretty good 22000 count its no oscilloscope but its pretty decent. I'm getting a logic analyzer soon so that might be interesting to use.
I agree about the excising maybe the resistance is why the cell is dumping the voltage because its to noisy.

 

[Sampsonay]

No, you need an array of TaPol with a combined ESR of 0.375mOhms. You can do it with 100mOhm caps, but you wouldn't want to. You'd need 267 of them in parallel, 100mOhms/266 caps = 0.375mOhms. Now the problem with that is that 470uF x 267 = 0.125 Farads (WAY OVERKILL). Not to mention impractical. Who wants to solder on that many caps? Instead you need to look for caps that are designed for processor decoupling (Low ESR). The lower the ESR, the fewer in parallel you need to match a tokin array.

I don't remember having that error. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?

So i just installed 32 Panasonic caps that are 330uF and have an ESR of 6 mOhms. System boots up again. Hopefully this machine lasts, tho im a bit skeptical since the GPU seems to have been reflowed or reballed by someone else before. Saw lots of flux residue around the GPU. I hope the caps were actually at fault, we'll see with time.

Anyways, you think i could get away with using 30 of the same caps but with an ESR of 4.5 mOhms? Could a lower ESR than the original spec potentially cause issues? Or is lower always better?

Also, the 4.5 mOhm caps have a Ripple current of 3.8A, and the 6 mOhm caps have a ripple current of 3.5A. Does this matter at all?

 

[RIP-Felix]

So i just installed 32 Panasonic caps that are 330uF and have an ESR of 6 mOhms. System boots up again. Hopefully this machine lasts, tho im a bit skeptical since the GPU seems to have been reflowed or reballed by someone else before. Saw lots of flux residue around the GPU. I hope the caps were actually at fault, we'll see with time.

Anyways, you think i could get away with using 30 of the same caps but with an ESR of 4.5 mOhms? Could a lower ESR than the original spec potentially cause issues? Or is lower always better?

Also, the 4.5 mOhm caps have a Ripple current of 3.8A, and the 6 mOhm caps have a ripple current of 3.5A. Does this matter at all?

Can you please provide the following:

• PS3 model?
• SYSCON error codes, if you've done it.
  
• Specific caps used (link or model number)?
  
• Type of YLOD? These are the categories I'm using for my spreadsheet, which describe every YLOD reported on this thread.
  Spoiler: Categories of YLOD

  • Warm Start (Only boots when warm)
  • Cold-Start (Only boots when cold)
  • Instant (<1s)
  • Non-Instant (1 - 10s)
  • Delayed (10s - 5mins, YLOD occurs after the console warms up or unstable in menu and dies at the drop of a pin. May be followed by a cold start YLOD)
  • Random (can occur anytime under normal stress, like games, movies, streaming apps, but is usually stable in menu)
  • Intense (High Stress, same place in certain demanding games like TLOU or GT6)

To answer your question, yes the ripple current rating is important. Basically the ESR of a cap is like the resistance of a resistor. The more current you pass through it the more it will heat up until it burns out. Here is a good explanation and quoted below is the juicy bit:

For low-voltage circuits that operate at high currents such as some modern CPUs, the demand for very low ESRs is even higher. Low equivalent series resistance enables capacitors to withstand high ripple currents.

IF you really want to dive into the calculations here is a good overview from KEMET. I would consider that TMI. Suffice it to say that getting the lowest ESR capacitor, with broadest frequency response curve across the frequencies you intend to suppress, with the highest ripple current rating, in the most desirable form factor, the same voltage rating, and using enough of them in parallel to achieve the combined ESR your looking for...are all important parameters to consider. In the real world, the calculations and simulation can only take you so far. You need to try them and measure. That's where we are now.