PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[Pacorretaco]

Thanks felix and
Vyk. I'll read over the posts and might attempt. I'm not sure if my multimeter read continuity..it doesn't have the beep function and I have seen seen vids where when they check continuity it beeps.

Even If you had beep mode in your multimeter, it wouldn't be good idea to trust it because these circuits are very low resistance by design.

Because the low voltage and high currents that the CPU runs at... 2 or 3 ohms to ground is normal for example.
But the multimeter would beep! Thinking there is a short everywhere when really there's no short. For us, a short is under 1 ohm.
For my multimeter, under 50 ohms is considered a short and will beep.
So beep mode is not really useful for these circuits.

 

[Pacorretaco]

By the way, the video is finally out after months of waiting...
Sorry that it took so long and that it is so long, but oh well. Better late than never, especially if it's a good thing!

 

[RIP-Felix]

By the way, the video is finally out after months of waiting...
Sorry that it took so long and that it is so long, but oh well. Better late than never, especially if it's a good thing!

Haha...I love how he struggles so hard to figure it out, just like all of us do the first time! Only he's cool enough to share his struggles with us LIVE. That takes balls my man...lol!

I feel like the repetition is actually helpful for people doing this their first time. If this were a step by step tutorial done quickly, it wouldn't show the little uncertainties we all have. He thinks out loud and voices alot of the same things I was wondering about, before figuring it out.

And I even learned something I didn't know before! I didn't realize you could put CMD into the search bar of the SYSCON folder, which automatically loads it into the directory, so you don't have to change the directory first!!! Great tip! I'm going to update my tutorial to include that, since it's easier!

 

[checha]

Hi,

Long time lurker trying to keep u with this thread, first time poster.
I've removed 2 GPU Capacitors and am ready to replace them with 6 tantalums.

I printed the PCB from RIP-Felix and loaded up with capacitors ready to go.
Which lines do I connect it to on the motherboard?

Cheers

 

[RIP-Felix]

What you have Pictured above is the soulkilla board. The rails on the bottom of the PCB are GND and correspond to the center rails on the tokin pad. You connect them by wicking solder down the plated catellations along the edge.

The outer rails on the tokin pad are + and soulkilla's PCB has no castellations along that edge, so you will have a hard time getting solder to bridge the gap from the rail below to the copper edge on the top layer of the PCB. I used a piece of wire laid along the edge to help bridge the gap.

 

[checha]

Ah yeah cheers mate so you've bridged + to the outer rails.

Why no bridges on the middle capacitor? And why no bridges to the negative pads on the motherboard?

Sorry for the double-post, it won't let me edit but I have 3 more questions:

1. Does the soulkiller PCB handle bridging the to positive rails (for if I replace all 4 RSX caps, no wire required)?

2. When you say the center pads, I thought It was outer positive, inner negative. But it's actually outer positive, inner ground?

3. I've ordered the syscon usb wire linked earlier, but I don't have a windows machine. Will I be able to get this going with either arch linux or the mac m1?

 

[Ormas]

I think I ruined my ps3 even more. I replaced all the nec caps with tantalums and bridged them and now I get an immediate ylod. I was trying to do what a video was doing and scratched the pcb to expose some copper so I can solder them easier. I dont know if I soldered them incorrectly or if I used the incorrect wire to bridge them( I got the wire from a crappy 3rd party gamecube controller ). I dont know what I'm doing anymore to be honest, this is all a headache.

 

[nCadeRegal]

I think I ruined my ps3 even more. I replaced all the nec caps with tantalums and bridged them and now I get an immediate ylod. I was trying to do what a video was doing and scratched the pcb to expose some copper so I can solder them easier. I dont know if I soldered them incorrectly or if I used the incorrect wire to bridge them( I got the wire from a crappy 3rd party gamecube controller ). I dont know what I'm doing anymore to be honest, this is all a headache.

Sorry to hear, now is a good time to listen to the experts here and try to get to the bottom of what is going on. I would recommend reading the syscon thread and see what errors that ps3 throws out. If you were able to remove tokins and solder in replacements it should be a walk in the park to connect to syscon.

 

[Ormas]

Sorry to hear, now is a good time to listen to the experts here and try to get to the bottom of what is going on. I would recommend reading the syscon thread and see what errors that ps3 throws out. If you were able to remove tokins and solder in replacements it should be a walk in the park to connect to syscon.

Where do I go to read the syscon thread? Sorry I'm new to this.

 

[nCadeRegal]

Right here. -> https://www.psx-place.com/threads/f...and-error-reporting.30100/page-56#post-293963. That's far into the thread but you can go back to the beginning and get an idea of what's needed then ask a question if you get stuck.

 

[patricksouza472]

I think I ruined my ps3 even more. I replaced all the nec caps with tantalums and bridged them and now I get an immediate ylod. I was trying to do what a video was doing and scratched the pcb to expose some copper so I can solder them easier. I dont know if I soldered them incorrectly or if I used the incorrect wire to bridge them( I got the wire from a crappy 3rd party gamecube controller ). I dont know what I'm doing anymore to be honest, this is all a headache.

The wire you're using is extremely thin. You must bridge the positive rails with thick wires like from a PC PSU or something like that. Also make sure you don't short the positive rails to ground (check with multimeter, will be around 2.5 ohms if everything's right). And as @nCadeRegal told you, follow the syscon guide to find out what's wrong. You'll get there eventually, don't lose hope

 

[vyktormvmpay25]

I have used 4x0.5mm, should 2mm diameter be enough for one ic . I have all kind of wires, but used enamelled because at 0.5 is easy to bend.

 

[patricksouza472]

Just making note of the usage on your console. From looking at other consoles with YLOD due to 3034 error codes (typically RSX issues, such as BGA or bumps), they tend to fail around the 150-300 days of use mark (3600 - 7200 hours). Yours is right on schedule at the 175 day mark.

Now THIS is scary. My CECHA01 is my daily driver and it's around 110 days.. Looks like the time bomb is ticking and I'll need to learn how to reball sooner than I expected. Time to start considering the 40nm RSX swap, but for now I'll keep enjoying it and hoping there's some sort of cfw that allows us to replace the RSX without that modchip in the near future

 

[Dariush Aghaee]

What is the recommended capacitors to buy for replacing NEC/tokens?
Thank you

 

[patricksouza472]

What is the recommended capacitors to buy for replacing NEC/tokens?
Thank you

@RIP-Felix recommended some Panasonic AlPol caps a while back. I harvested some NEC TaPol caps from a dead slim motherboard, they worked out fine (They're labeled NEW e68).

 

[RIP-Felix]

Now THIS is scary. My CECHA01 is my daily driver and it's around 110 days.. Looks like the time bomb is ticking and I'll need to learn how to reball sooner than I expected. Time to start considering the 40nm RSX swap, but for now I'll keep enjoying it and hoping there's some sort of cfw that allows us to replace the RSX without that modchip in the near future

Just keep the RSX & CPU cool during the entire usage time. The cooler that temperature swing the longer the BGA will last. And that is a VERY loose estimate based upon YLOD caused by many different things. I've been meaning to read back through the SYSCON thread and document every console's error code, usage, and resolution. Then I'll be able to see if different types of errors occur more or less often. The problem right now is that too few people have done the SYSCON and provided these DATA for any statistical significance to emerge. Eventually maybe.

 

[patricksouza472]

Just keep the RSX & CPU cool during the entire usage time. The cooler that temperature swing the longer the BGA will last. And that is a VERY loose estimate based upon YLOD caused by many different things. I've been meaning to read back through the SYSCON thread and document every console's error code, usage, and resolution. Then I'll be able to see if different types of errors occur more or less often. The problem right now is that too few people have done the SYSCON and provided these DATA for any statistical significance to emerge. Eventually maybe.

I keep webman mod at 68°C max temp, and the fan goes up to about 51% on TLoU hardly goes past 35% on anything else

 

[RIP-Felix]

@RIP-Felix recommended some Panasonic AlPol caps a while back. I harvested some NEC TaPol caps from a dead slim motherboard, they worked out fine

I recommend Panasonic 2R5TPE470M7 TaPol capacitors. Or you can use Panasonic EEFSX0D471E4 AlPol from a slim if you want. They have lower ESR at the target frequency, which is good, but are not as good into the HF ranges. Also they are only rated for 2000 hours.

I keep webman mod at 68°C max temp, and the fan goes up to about 51% on TLoU hardly goes past 35% on anything else

That's good. It'll last much longer if you keep the TIC fresh and those temps under control...But, nothing can prevent a BGA failure! Nature of LGA/BGA technology I'm afraid. PGA is much more reliable!

 

[RIP-Felix]

Why no bridges on the middle capacitor? And why no bridges to the negative pads on the motherboard?

1. Does the soulkiller PCB handle bridging the to positive rails (for if I replace all 4 RSX caps, no wire required)?

2. When you say the center pads, I thought It was outer positive, inner negative. But it's actually outer positive, inner ground?

3. I've ordered the syscon usb wire linked earlier, but I don't have a windows machine. Will I be able to get this going with either arch linux or the mac m1?

The PCB routes all that for you. All you have to do is connect the edges to the + rail and the 4 plated Vias on the side above the GND rails. Negative and Ground are the same thing.

Yes, in the SYSCON folder you downloaded is a tutorail already made for LINUX. The creator uses linux and made the guide. I made a tutorial for windows users, because it was tripping alot of people up trying to figure out how to do it using windows instead.

 

[RIP-Felix]

I think I ruined my ps3 even more. I replaced all the nec caps with tantalums and bridged them and now I get an immediate ylod. I was trying to do what a video was doing and scratched the pcb to expose some copper so I can solder them easier. I dont know if I soldered them incorrectly or if I used the incorrect wire to bridge them( I got the wire from a crappy 3rd party gamecube controller ). I dont know what I'm doing anymore to be honest, this is all a headache.

Welcome!

First would you pleas provide us with a few things?

1. Model of PS3 (you can find this on the back sticker. It should say something like CECHA01 for a Phat model, or CECH2001A for a slim model, etc.)
2. Was the console sealed? Do you know if has been serviced before? What's the history of the console? If you don't know, when you opened it up, did it look like it had been worked on before? Most importantly, does it look like it has been reflowed before? Is there any flux residue in the RSX region?
   
3. Type of YLOD (the original one, before you attempted this mod). For example, from when you press the power button to hearing 3 beeps, how much time elapses? less than a second, 1-2s, 2-10s, 10s-5mins, randomly occurs, only in games, or only in intense games.
4. The model number of the capacitors you used (or a link to the product you bought if you don't know).
5. Use a multimeter set to resistance and measure the resistance bewteen +/GND rails. Please provide us the RSX and CPU side resistances. This is kind like a PS3 health meter...
   
   • 0-1 Ohm = Dead or nearly so. You may have a Short (double check soldering). The RSX/CPU could be dead. Or there could be defective BGA affecting the resistance. Flux residues reduce this resistance, so be sure to clean it off thoroughly!
     
   • 1-2 Ohms = Not good, but not dead yet.
   • 2-3 Ohms = Normal wear and tear, nothing out of the ordinary.
   • 3+ Ohms = Very Healthy, like new!

As others mentioned you need to use a larger bridge wire. The NEC/TOKINs are internally connected from positive rail to positive rail, and that is where all the current that feeds the processors goes. When you use a thin wire, you are basically forcing all that current through a tiny pipe. It'll burst (literally vaporize) and cause an instant YLOD like you described. Or it's also possible you bridged the +/GND rails. So double check your soldering for a short. Be sure to check the Resistance from #5 above before and after so you know if your work is good.

Okay, and now for the truth. Youtube is currently behind on the state of this fix. Everyone was too excited by the "narrative" that this is the true problem and reballing is a waste of money. "Haha! The truth has been the tantalums all along..." and so on. It's a great story that gets lots of clicks, likes, subscribers, and so on. Trubble is, it was a red herring (BS). It is in fact only going to work for a small percentage of YLODs and reballing is still needed something like 90% of the time. All that was discovered in this thread was another possible cause. One that accounts for maybe 3% of the YLOD out there. The reason the console works after installing the Tantalums, is the same reason it works after heating the caps. Thermomechanical reconnection of the microscopic BGA defect by warping the board. It will relax over the next 2 weeks and then the YLOD returns. It looks like you repaired the console, makes for a great video, and has a satisfying narrative - "Don't waste $$$ on reballing! Tantalum has been the problem all along!" But they were wrong. The video doesn't show what happens to the console 2 weeks later. You don't get the full picture until it happens to you!

...And that's what brings you here!

So, where do you go from here? To know if your console can be fixed using this method, you need to check the SYSCON error codes to diagnose the problem first. I made a windows tutorial here. If your NEC/TOKINs need replaced you'll get a 1002 error. If you need a reball, you 'll get a 3034. It does get more complicated than that, but those are the basics. If there is a 3034 in the errlog, then even if you fix the tantalums the YLOD will return. Unless the console has been reflowed previously. It's possible the reflow fixed the 3034 and we are just seeing an old error in the log. So this is why we need to know the console's work history.