PS3 «Tutorial» PS3 CELL B/E Thermal Dissipation without removing the IHS

[wrx884]

while its true that thermal paste has a shelf life like most stuff it can be a more permanent fix. in my case i opened my 30xx to change thermal paste after about 5 years of manufacturing even when i got a ball of dust of a corner of the cell IHS it was still somehow worse fan was going above 35% even with the top cover off, did a variation of this method using a different material and it worked.

my theory is that the metal clamps cant keep the pressure on anymore due to age, thermal cyclyng or whatever whatever and doing this mod helped with putting the pressre back on because ive seen people say that bending the clamps back help even saw a tutorial of using washers insted of an eraser.

anyway it has been 3 or 4 years since then only have replace thermal paste once since then exact same piece of material is still there and works fine, 33% fan speed enogh to keep RSX at high 60s CELL mid to low 60s even on the most demanding games on a console with 700+ days of use

So in other words urs is the 2nd issue i already mentioned that this method is pointing to the problem. so again no this is not more of a permanent fix its still a band aid fix so dont confuse others to think this is the fix. @sandungas has explained this again briefly as it seems theres much confusion about whats actually happening when u need to try this method. until u open it up and do the necessary tests we cant say what is the actual problem until we see the issue ourselves. The slims were known for IHS and heat sink surface issues from factory which u could just simply be put into that category like many others.

 

[Cosmic-R]

So in other words urs is the 2nd issue i already mentioned that this method is pointing to the problem. so again no this is not more of a permanent fix its still a band aid fix so dont confuse others to think this is the fix. @sandungas has explained this again briefly as it seems theres much confusion about whats actually happening when u need to try this method. until u open it up and do the necessary tests we cant say what is the actual problem until we see the issue ourselves. The slims were known for IHS and heat sink surface issues from factory which u could just simply be put into that category like many others.

i understand what you mean but dont you think that after you've replaced the thermal paste after 5 years and clean all the dust from inside the console the cooling is somehow worse
pressure or contact surface wasnt a problem before so how did it becme a problem afer disassembly? ( or how else would you explain it ?)

but doing this mod gets it pretty close to how it was beffore disassembly and after 4 years the exact same piece goes back in after a thermal paste change console still cools as good as it did 4 years ago ?

is it really wrong to say that after 4 years it can be considered a more "permanent" fix if not an alternative to a delid if cooling hasnt gone too bad ?

i do have a small disagreement in saying that you will eventually need a delid in my personal experience i havent needed one and by the looks of things i wont be needing one fortunatedly (altough you will need one if this fix isnt enough for your console)

so my line of tought is (thermal paste never replaced and never dusted inside-after maintenace console cooling is worse-do this mod console now cools much better-after 4 years and a thermal paste replacement console still cools just as good if not better)

i saw several variations of this mod including eraser,washers,bending the metal clamps back, all achieve the same result i had a friend that did the eraser method on his fat and it worked for a time, thats why i didnt used an eraser on mine but something else and in my experience is a much more lasting fix, and in my case it was just what my console needed no delid is necessary.

am not telling everyone of you that you are wrong and i am right and i apologize if i am i just dont agree completely nor do i disagree completely i am just speaking from my personal experience

 

[Chino Moreno]

The eraser degrades over a short period of time. My eraser trick is somewhat shortlived, in that, im getting 60 plus again in-game. Maybe we can replace it with something more longer lasting and heat resilient that it does not lose its original height.

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[wrx884]

i understand what you mean but dont you think that after you've replaced the thermal paste after 5 years and clean all the dust from inside the console the cooling is somehow worse
pressure or contact surface wasnt a problem before so how did it becme a problem afer disassembly? ( or how else would you explain it ?)
e

I cant answer that i dont know how good ur method was when u put the console back together or how closely u paid attention to certain things when doing so, theres too many variables to consider so unfortunately i can only assume mayb u did something wrong? only way to tell is by opening it up again to find the answers its as simple as that.

Also it is wrong calling it a more "permanent" fix, there is no in between, theres either a solution or there isnt when u use the word permanent, i dont get why u need to try share false info out there. This is just a helpful guide to those who cant delid or in some cases like ur own console deliding those is another issue in itself so just take it as a temp fix and thats it.

 

[Cosmic-R]

I cant answer that i dont know how good ur method was when u put the console back together or how closely u paid attention to certain things when doing so, theres too many variables to consider so unfortunately i can only assume mayb u did something wrong? only way to tell is by opening it up again to find the answers its as simple as that.

Also it is wrong calling it a more "permanent" fix, there is no in between, theres either a solution or there isnt when u use the word permanent, i dont get why u need to try share false info out there. This is just a helpful guide to those who cant delid or in some cases like ur own console deliding those is another issue in itself so just take it as a temp fix and thats it.

i dissasembled the console several times since the first time and re aplied thermal paste every time tried too little to too much the result was the exact same fan speed up to 35% when just booting up gta 5 not even in the game yet, i know for sure that i didnt pt it back together wrong its a 3000 its not rocket science motherboard only goes in one way they heatsinks are fixed in place psu only goes in 1 way connectors go in a single way for me to have assembled it wrong i would have had to purposedly had done so.

am not spreading false info as you say the mod works i thigtened the heatsink in a crossed even pattern meaning half a screw driver turn on side 1 of cell half on side 2 of rsx half on side 2 of cell half on side 1 of the rsx until it was fully tightened. and as chino said because the eraser degrades over a short period of time i used something else, bussiness cards in fact about the size of the cell and rsx ihs about 2 or 3mm thick directly under the cell and rsx on the motherboard and 4 years after and counting still works as good.

there probably is a better material than what i used i just dont know what it is

maybe youre supposed to replace the metal clamps after dissasemble there arent any service manuals available that describe the process of dissasembly maybe youre supposed to tighten the heatsink to a certain torque spec and i dont know.

what i know for sure its that the before and after of my console after this mod is true only has needed ocasional dusting and thermal paste replacement like a normal fully working non problematic console would. so no i dont belive am spreading false info

 

[sandungas]

i saw several variations of this mod including eraser,washers,bending the metal clamps back, all achieve the same result i had a friend that did the eraser method on his fat and it worked for a time, thats why i didnt used an eraser on mine but something else and in my experience is a much more lasting fix, and in my case it was just what my console needed no delid is necessary.

Are different results, you need to think in how the forces are transfered using imaginary "vectors" (arrows)
Think in the theory... if you place 1 kilo of weight in your hand it doesnt hurts... but if you place a vertical needle in between your hand and the kilo... auuuch

In the PS3 the presure is generated by the metal clamp... technically is working as a "spring"... the most bending in the metal clamp the most stronger is going to be the "spring effect"
The surface that transfers the force in the metal clamp to the next piece is really an straight line (at his center), is prety much the same effect i explained of a kilo of weight on top of a needle... thats very bad because concentrates all the force in a single line

To prevent that problem (in other words to convert the line to a different geometry)... they uses a squared piece of white plastic... this tehnically is supposed to convert the straight line into an square
But the problem is that white piece of plastic have 4 tiny "bumps" at the corners
So... what we have now is the whole pressure located in 4 points

As a recap... the metal clamp have the pressure located in a straight line... and the squared white plastic spreads the pressure in 4 points

That 4 points have the geometry of an square bigger than the DIE, but smaller than the IHS... but there is no pressure at the center

As an additional problem, the CELL have that "hole" in the motherboard that is an structural problem because is making that area of the motherboard more prone for bending... and that bending is permanent

And so on... i can continue exposing problems of this design, the point is you need to think in how every piece touches with each other, is like this:

Metal clamp (line) ---> white plastic (4 dots) ---> motherboard ---> BGA ---> substrate ---> DIE ---> IHS ---> Heatsink

At the center of the CELL there are no motherboard neither BGA (there is a hole instead). The custom eraser/rubber replaces them (and it works also like an spring if you use some flexible material)

The eraser degrades over a short period of time. My eraser trick is somewhat shortlived, in that, im getting 60 plus again in-game. Maybe we can replace it with something more longer lasting and heat resilient that it does not lose its original height.

I mentioned it several times, a piece made with rubber is a lot better material to use than a eraser

The piece of rubber needed for this mod is just 3 or 4 milimeters thickness... so roll around your house to see if you find something made of rubber to cut it
It could be a toy, some stuff for the kitchen/bath, dunno whatever, and make a temperature stress test with it

The goal is... the rubber needs to preserve his original dimmensions at ambient temprature, and after boiling it for 10 minutes
If the dimmensions are exactly the same before and after boiling it then is ok

Is better to do it with a piece of rubber because is going to resist a lot better the thermal variations and the aging

In case of doubt about the rubber material... fill a pot with water, heat it in the kitchen until it starts boiling (the water boils exactly at 100ºC) then throw the rubber material in it and boil it for 10 minutes more or so
If the rubber material keeps his dimmensions and is still solid (in other words, it survived the test) it means is good enought for the PS3

 

[wrx884]

i dissasembled the console several times since the first time and re aplied thermal paste every time tried too little to too much the result was the exact same fan speed up to 35% when just booting up gta 5 not even in the game yet, i know for sure that i didnt pt it back together wrong its a 3000 its not rocket science motherboard only goes in one way they heatsinks are fixed in place psu only goes in 1 way connectors go in a single way for me to have assembled it wrong i would have had to purposedly had done so.

o

Assembly and disassembly is probably only a 1/3 of what u need to be paying attention to, yes its not rocket science but it seems u have over looked other issues that can cause issues too otherwise u would have mentioned it already. Theres much u havent told us u checked so again theres no way we can say what u have done or haven't done here yet. @sandungas has done too much already explaining what the other issue is doing so i dont need to keep telling u why this is just a temp fix for ur console.

 

[Cosmic-R]

To prevent that problem (in other words to convert the line to a different geometry)... they uses a squared piece of white plastic... this tehnically is supposed to convert the straight line into an square
But the problem is that white piece of plastic have 4 tiny "bumps" at the corners
So... what we have now is the whole pressure located in 4 points

At the center of the CELL there are no motherboard neither BGA (there is a hole instead). The custom eraser/rubber replaces them (and it works also like an spring if you use some flexible material)

i just found what the fundamental difference is the tutorial as it is originally described aims at adding more pressure at the center where the die is where as what i did adds pressure to the whole CELL and RSX IHS like the factory design works might seem obvious to you but it just dawned on me

Assembly and disassembly is probably only a 1/3 of what u need to be paying attention to, yes its not rocket science but it seems u have over looked other issues that can cause issues too otherwise u would have mentioned it already. Theres much u havent told us u checked so again theres no way we can say what u have done or haven't done here yet. @sandungas has done too much already explaining what the other issue is doing so i dont need to keep telling u why this is just a temp fix for ur console.

forgive me if i sound condessending but cuould you mention what issues i might have overlooked and the problems you speak of ? maybe i will try to remember and tell you

 

[ElGris]

I don't recommend people to bend the clamps. That will definitely deform the bga, and one day, boom, YLOD. I've seen people using a thin piece of plastic or carboard between the back cover of the mobo (where those 4 white plastic dots are) and the mobo itself. This when you have delidded your processors, but if that isn't the case, you could add a thinner piece of plastic there just to make a little bit more of pressure.

Also, why everyone is adding a piece of rubber and not a thick thermal pad?

https://www.stockwell.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/thermal-gap-filler-4-pads.jpg

You could also put a bit of MX4 (not conductive) to see if you can get better results. The key here is to get the best thermal conductive setup between the capacitors under CELL and the back cover of the mobo (again, where those white dots are).

Is that we don't agree with that?

 

[sandungas]

Actually, if you think in that squared white piece of plastic located in between the metal clamps and the motherboard there are 2 problems with them

The biggest problem are that 4 "bumps" at the corners... it would be much better to remove the "bumps" to have a better contant surface VS surface (white plastic piece VS motherboard surface, both very flat)... this would spread the pressure perfectly

The second problem is that is made of plastic... so it has his own flexibility (we dont know how much though)... you know, the metal clamp is "pushing" the white squared piece at his center, but the plastic piece touches the motherboard in 4 points at the corners... so the pressure could create a curvature at his center

The "hole" at the back of CELL is making this problem even bigger
At the CELL edges you have the pressure transfered this way:
Metal clamp (line) ---> white plastic (4 dots at the edges) ---> motherboard ---> BGA ---> substrate ---> DIE ---> IHS ---> Heatsink

And at the CELL center (with the custom rubber mod) this way:
Metal clamp (line) ---> white plastic (center) ---> rubber ---> substrate ---> DIE ---> IHS ---> Heatsink

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Is very hard to calculate the thickness/heights of the custom rubber mod suggested in this thread, but i think it can be made better

For CELL a piece of rubber with the same size than the white square + a solid piece of plastic to fill the hole at the back of CELL
And for RSX another piece of rubber with the same size than the white square, but without the solid plastic piece to fill the hole

This way the pieces made of rubber are working like springs, and are going to transfer the pressure to a perfect squared area

 

[ElGris]

Now that I'm seeing it in detail, those 4 dots and the metal clamp are creating a "five points pressure contacts", and obviously this was meant to work more with the IHS's than the dies or even the 4 rams the RSX has (since the CELL only has a die). And as you said, is not perfect, since those 4 points are at a different level than the center point (where the metal clamp is doing the biggest pressure of all five points). And since in the center there's "nothing", only air, you're only doing a pressure job, not dissipating anything, and that's where we need to focus. Since the metal cover, or where those 4 dots are, is metallic, doing any kind of contact between those and the mobo means creating a big ass short that will literally kill the mobo, so erassing those 4 dots is a wrong move.

Now, adding a thermal pad on the CELL and putting some not conductive thermal compound would be a nice experiment. On the RSX you can't do much because there's only pcb. On the metal cover you also have two solder joints that connect to the little piece of metal that has those 4 dots, so in theory, the heat that comes from the CELL (capacitors) can be directed to the clamps and then the entire mobo, right? That means that by adding that thermal pad, you need also to add a little bit of thermal compound below the clamp, and even on the screws of THAT clamp. What do you think?

P/S: There's a candidate under the BD drive that could be sacrificed for this experiment lol. But I think we need something even thicker.

 

[Cosmic-R]

ive just watched a couple of videos of a ps4 dissasembly and the difference i saw is that the heatsink clamp and square piece are attached directly to the motherboard then to the heatsink (ps4 slim and pro) where as in the ps3 and original ps4 the clamp goes to the motherboard shielding then to the square with the dots thats on the shielding.

theres also somo photos taken from a sony engineer presentation about differences in the cooling phylosophy between the fat slim and super slim includes ps2 and ps4 too but its in japanese

fat was something like too much heat cool as fast as possible slim was how much air can be moved with small as possible fan super slim was how much air can be moved withot making much noise

thats what i can remember from using a image translator

also maybe if the 4 dots were removed there will be nothing there would be no contact between the motherboard and shielding maybe you would even bend the motherboard as you screw the screws in
so i dont think its a good idea to just remove them without putting something else in between

 

[sandungas]

Now that I'm seeing it in detail, those 4 dots and the metal clamp are creating a "five points pressure contacts", and obviously this was meant to work more with the IHS's than the dies or even the 4 rams the RSX has (since the CELL only has a die). And as you said, is not perfect, since those 4 points are at a different level than the center point (where the metal clamp is doing the biggest pressure of all five points). And since in the center there's "nothing", only air, you're only doing a pressure job, not dissipating anything, and that's where we need to focus. Since the metal cover, or where those 4 dots are, is metallic, doing any kind of contact between those and the mobo means creating a big ass short that will literally kill the mobo, so erassing those 4 dots is a wrong move.

Now, adding a thermal pad on the CELL and putting some not conductive thermal compound would be a nice experiment. On the RSX you can't do much because there's only pcb. On the metal cover you also have two solder joints that connect to the little piece of metal that has those 4 dots, so in theory, the heat that comes from the CELL (capacitors) can be directed to the clamps and then the entire mobo, right? That means that by adding that thermal pad, you need also to add a little bit of thermal compound below the clamp, and even on the screws of THAT clamp. What do you think?

Sorry, i dont know why i was saying the squared piece with the 4 bumps was made fully of plastic, now that i see the photo i remember only the bumps are plastic, but the square is made of a metal sheet

Anyway, the 2 problems i mentioned before are the same, the metal sheet has his own flexibility and the 4 bumps are an annoyance
If we remove the plastic bumps the squared metal is going to touch the motherboard and thats very bad obviouslly
So yeah, incase of removing them is needed to add a "non electrical conductive" material in between... but i have to insist, the rubber is the best material because is flexible and is going to work like an spring
Also, is going to adapt very well to the small posible imperfections of the surfaces (like the tiny capacitors incase there are some)

And to fill the "hole" behind CELL... not sure at this point what could be better
The problem is if you fill the hole with more rubber then is not going to transfer the pressure well... is better to fill it with a solid piece of plastic (and maybe another layer of rubber to adapt to the capacitors inside the "hole")

 

[sandungas]

The problem is if you fill the hole with more rubber then is not going to transfer the pressure well... is better to fill it with a solid piece of plastic (and maybe another layer of rubber to adapt to the capacitors inside the "hole")

The problem is the amount of force transfered by a rubber block depends of his thickness, let me explain this better with an example...

We have a cube of metal on top of a table, and we know to move it (with our finger) we needed to apply a horizontal force = X
If we add a block of rubber in between our finger and the metal cube of 1 milimeter thickness then most of the force is transfered to the cube... so the force we need to apply is pretty much the same with the rubber or without the rubber

But if we add a big block of rubber of 10 centimeters... then part of the initial force is "absorbed" by the rubber because is flexible and is going to contract


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Moral of the story... in this case a thin layer of rubber is good, but a lot of rubber is not good (specially if the amount of rubber is not uniform)

 

[sandungas]

Now, adding a thermal pad on the CELL and putting some not conductive thermal compound would be a nice experiment. On the RSX you can't do much because there's only pcb. On the metal cover you also have two solder joints that connect to the little piece of metal that has those 4 dots, so in theory, the heat that comes from the CELL (capacitors) can be directed to the clamps and then the entire mobo, right? That means that by adding that thermal pad, you need also to add a little bit of thermal compound below the clamp, and even on the screws of THAT clamp. What do you think?

Yep, incase of adding a thermal pad is going to transfer the heat trom that area of the motherboard (that is going to have a temperature close to CELL/RSX sensor) to the metal shield
But it would be made directly at that 2 "perforations" that have at the sides... is a very small area though
The amount of heat trasfered to the metal clmap is going to be very small because the area of contact in between the metal clamp and the squared metal sheet is a small and thin straight line

Anyway, the original design of that pieces is not intended to help in heat dissipation, so this would be pretty much an "extra" and we are not sure if is going to be even notable

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Returning to the thermal pads idea... there is no need to use thermal paste with them, usually when you buy them are "gummy" like a chewing gum... to the point that you can break them with your bare hands like a chewing gum, and thats bad in this case because they should not break at any point and under any circunstances

So... incase you find some rubber pads that looks solid and strenght i guess is ok, they are not going to have the "spring effect" of the rubber i suggested, but that effect is not really needed because the metal clamps are doing that spring effect too

Incase of doubts about the consistency of the thermal pad material i have to insist that is better to use rubber. As example, the rubber used in the tyres of a car... thats the kind of rubber you cant break with your bare hands

 

[ElGris]

"The goal with this tutorial, its for the CELL B/E Core to make contact with the IHS, as the paste inside its practically dry, with years of use, by making a bigger area of heat transfer, eliminating the need to delid the CELL B/E and take risks in damaging the whole system."

I really need to read about what I'm discussing before making some statements lol. So that's why people were adding that piece of rubber. I thought this was all about heat dissipation under the CELL, not above the die (below the IHS)

I'll try what I mentioned and see if there's any special change about temps. I'm waiting for a fattie BC (don't know what model is, adding some suspense lol) and is the perfect candidate to try this.

With delidded consoles won't be possible I believe, but with normal consoles is something new. I know that those "perforations" are a weak point of dissipation, they don't look to be soldered, but is something that I can try. Let's see what happens..

 

[raidriar]

I delidded for full repaste and put a 1mm thermal pad under the metal clamp for extra pressure. Results have been very good, I can run PS2_gxemu under 67C (usually 63-65)C @ 30% fan speed

 

[sandungas]

I delidded for full repaste and put a 1mm thermal pad under the metal clamp for extra pressure. Results have been very good, I can run PS2_gxemu under 67C (usually 63-65)C @ 30% fan speed

The same can be achieved by bending the metal clamps, i made a drawing to show how to do it accuratelly

The good thing about doing it this way is there is no need to add any custom part, we are just bending the metal a bit
If you do this meassurement accuratelly, keeping a record of the factory value and adding some bending well calculated (and to both clamps for CELL and RSX) then is safe because everything is under control, and also because you can revert the bending back to the factory value
Is not a matter of bending the clamps randomnly without caring about anything... if you do it randomnly then you will lose the reference from the factory values and you will not be sure at which point you are (if the pressure is excesive and you are entering in the "danger zone")
The point is... try to do it accuratelly, and dont abuse of the bending


What you did adding a thermal pad is fine, because is not electrical conductive
Im mentioning this because ive seen people adding a coin... thats a bad idea really because if the coin "escapes" and starts moving freelly inside the console it could cause serious damage to the motherboard, is not probable to happen but anyway... use something made of plastic instead, or just bend the metal clamp in the way im suggesting because is a lot more simple and safe



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And btw, try to avoid the idea that the pressure added by the clamp is applyed at the bottom (it looks like that, but is not really like that), 50% of it is "transfered" to the top

 

[ItsmeAJ]

Well, I have a CECHL02 from my friend modded with this eraser trick and the result is really amazing, normally its CPU is surely no lower than 70*C @95% fan speed by just a min or two while in dashboard. And in game it reaches to no lower than 76-80*C during day without air conditioner, ambient temp is quite high ~ 33-35*C

but after applying this mod, the CPU is now running cooler than ever, ~65*C @55% fan speed while being on dashboard, and in game it reaches 69*C @60-65% fan speed.

I also apply this to my slim 21xx and hope these will live a long life with us.

I also notice after replacing thermal paste for CPU and RSX, the contact between CPU and heatsink is not close enough, when I remove the board from heatsink today, only 40% surface of heatsink cover with new thermal paste (I've done spreading method, not pea), no wonder why replacing thermal paste for these fat console is not really effective. BTW this eraser trick fix this problem well.

Now the CPU/RSX share same temperature 65/67*C (+/- 1*C) @55% fan speed, before it was 80*C/65*C @95% fan speed.

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Well, I have a CECHL02 from my friend modded with this eraser trick and the result is really amazing, normally its CPU is surely no lower than 70*C @95% fan speed by just a min or two while in dashboard. And in game it reaches to no lower than 76-80*C during day without air conditioner, ambient temp is quite high ~ 33-35*C

but after applying this mod, the CPU is now running cooler than ever, ~65*C @55% fan speed while being on dashboard, and in game it reaches 69*C @60-65% fan speed.

I also apply this to my slim 21xx and hope these will live a long life with us.

I also notice after replacing thermal paste for CPU and RSX, the contact between CPU and heatsink is not close enough, when I remove the board from heatsink today, only 40% surface of heatsink cover with new thermal paste (I've done spreading method, not pea), no wonder why replacing thermal paste for these fat console is not really effective. BTW this eraser trick fix this problem well.

Now the CPU/RSX share same temperature 65/67*C (+/- 1*C) @55% fan speed, before it was 80*C/65*C @95% fan speed.

Oh no.... Not that Profile Picture, it brings me memories, but not pleasant ones [emoji23] [emoji599][emoji599][emoji599]

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